Sermons in the Frequently Asked Questions Series

Well, good morning. It's good to see everybody. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors here. If I haven't gotten the chance to meet you, I would be shocked because it's Memorial Day and no one visits a church on Memorial Day. But if you are doing that, I'd love to meet you in the lobby after the service. And as I always say on holiday Sundays, if you are here in church on a holiday Sunday, God does love you more than vacationing Christians. It is objectively true if you're watching online. Thanks so much for doing that. Try to be here next year. And here's what, Memorial Day is a special day for me. I'm not going to get into it because we have a lot of ground to cover and what I want to talk about this morning because I thought Memorial Day would be a great day to talk about pain and suffering and why bad things happen to good people feels right but I I just I love I love you guys I love my church I love how we worship and here's how I know that the good Christians came today. Because this is just a little bit behind the scenes, how the sausage is made. Sometimes Gibby and I, Gibson, Aaron Gibson, our worship pastor, will talk. And I'll just kind of say like, hey, be careful about laying out and letting the congregation sing. Because there's not many people here or the vibe is weird or there's not good energy and that might fall flat and then that'll be terrible. So let's relax on that. And he's like, yeah, you're right. And so for him to be able, and I'm being honest, for him to be able in worship to lay out on Memorial Day and say, just you sing, and for me to be here and hear my church praising our God on Memorial Day, we got the worshipers here today. So that was good. That was good. And I enjoyed that very much. Before I just barrel into the sermon, we should acknowledge what today is. We live in a country where we can do this freely, where the barrier to entry to church is extremely low because we have religious freedoms that have been fought for and have been died for. And we celebrate those today, not just our religious freedoms, but our freedom of speech and all the other things. And it is worth it and appropriate and good to take a minute today and acknowledge the freedom that we have, the morning that we can enjoy, and the lives that have been lost for that sake, to earn us this freedom. So it's worth acknowledging here at the head that we don't sit here for lack of sacrifice. And we honor those sacrifices today. This morning is our last morning in our series called FAQs. Next week, I'm excited. We're going to launch a, we're going to launch a, it's actually, so you guys may hear this and groan. Okay, so please don't do that because I think it's actually going to be really good and we're going to enjoy it. We're going to do a 14-week series in Moses. Bill, Bill Reed, a long time, a resting elder. I said that. He goes, what? Like, it made a faith. Yes, Bill, 14 weeks, baby. Buckle up. We're going to be in Exodus going through the life of Moses. There's so much to learn about the life of Moses and from his life. And I'm excited to begin that journey with you guys. But this week we're wrapping up our series FAQ, which as you've been told, we kind of solicited some questions from small groups and from different people in the church. And I've interacted with ideas that as a pastor, I get these questions a lot. And the most common question to come up when you solicit these things from people, what do you have questions about? What questions about your faith exist? Every time something like this is done, at least in my experience, the most common question to come up is the question of suffering, which is generally phrased, why do bad things happen to good people? And implicit in that question is, why does a God who says he loves us let my dad die, right? That's what we're asking. Why does a God who says he loves us allow these terrible things to happen? Why are school shootings a thing? Why is genocide a thing? Why was the Holocaust or slavery a thing? That's what we're asking. And that comes up all the time. And I don't know about you, but the way that I've experienced my understanding of a theology of suffering over my years as a believer is in my early years, I'm kind of handed an apparatus or a way to understand suffering that helps me process it when it happens to other people. And so that's sufficient for me then. But then my life, then I encounter profound suffering. I'm like, whoa, what I was handed is not adequate to explain this to me and help me reconcile it and be okay with it. And then down the road, there's something else that happens. And now you have to explain suffering to someone else. And, and what you've been handed is not adequate to explain it to them. And so you realize there's some deficiency in how you understand suffering and the theology of suffering. And here's why this is really important, because when we misunderstand the theology of suffering, this more often, I think, than almost anything else within the Christian realm causes people to actually walk away from their faith because the way that they understand suffering isn't robust enough to be adequate for the experiences that they're having in their life. And so they allow suffering to actually move them away from God rather than run to God. So it becomes very important to develop a robust theology of suffering for the sake of maintaining our faith and fidelity to God. So it's important that we talk about it this morning. And typically, when we think about suffering and this challenging theology of suffering, we go to circumstances like one that I've, that shaped my way of thinking about suffering, which is when my, one of my best friends, a guy named Chris Gerlach was 30 years old. Gerlach and I were roommates in college. We used to keep each other up at night, each other the Tsar of Dumb and you're the King of Stupid and you are the Emperor of Moronity and things like that. That's the kind of friendship that we had. Gerlach was a great man. And at 30, as a pastor, with three kids under five, He was in good health playing frisbee, playing ultimate frisbee. He threw a touchdown pass 40 yards. They caught it, celebrated, turned around to celebrate with Gerlach and he was dead on the field. Widowmaker heart attack. I watched at the graveside his five-year-old knock on his coffin and ask his mom, my wife's college roommate, Carla, when is daddy going to wake up? That's when you go back to scripture and you go, God, why would you let that happen? Right? And I'm not so naive as to think that you don't all have very similar stories of a time in your life when you say, God, why would you let this thing happen? And so here's what I'm going to say about this, because this is, that kind of suffering is actually not the suffering that I want to talk about today. Because I've done that before. And if you've been here for a long time, you've heard me tell that story before. And we've talked about it. And I've done three or four sermons about that level of suffering that just mystifies you and makes you go, my goodness, God, how could you allow this? And so as I approached it today, I thought, I don't want to do that sermon again. I don't think it serves the church to do that sermon again. I think there's actually another thing about suffering that we need to think about. But before I just jumped into what I want us to think about today, I didn't want to breeze past that kind of suffering that is so mystifying and so grief-inducing that it causes you to question your faith. And so on that, I've done three or four sermons. And if you're interested in them, email me and I will send you the link and say, this is where I talked about this. Because it's important to address that kind of profound grief. But here's the very quick version of how that sermon goes, okay? I'm going to give you the cliff notes. I'm going to move very fast. I'm going to answer this question, how do we address profound grief? And then I want to move into actually what I want to talk to you about reframing the way we think about suffering today. The answer to the question in very profound grief is John 11, 35, which is simply this, shortest verse in the Bible, Jesus wept. That's the answer to profound suffering, okay? The situation here, when this verse comes up, Jesus' purported best friends, Mary, Martha, and Lazarus had sent word to Jesus that Lazarus was dying. Could you please come heal him? And Jesus says, okay. And then he waits two days and then he goes to Bethany where they lived. And as he's on the way to Bethany, Lazarus dies and outside their their home, Mary meets Jesus on the street. And she's weeping and she says, why did you do this? Why did you let my brother die? Why are you allowing me to be in this kind of pain? It's the question we ask when we suffer. God, why'd you do this? And Jesus' response in that suffering is, he wept. He wept. Now, here's why this is important. Years ago, I listened to one of the most impactful sermons I've ever heard in my life by a pastor from California named Rick Warren. Many of you have probably heard of him. He had a, I believe, a 27 or 29-year-old son that took his own life because he dealt with mental health issues. And when that happened, he stepped out of the pulpit for a few months. And when he came back, he preached a sermon series that I would highly recommend you Google called How I Got Through What I Went Through. And in that opening sermon, he pointed to Jesus wept. And he said this, I'll never forget this. We pastors put phrases up on the screen and you write down and fill in the blanks. And here's what I know. You don't remember that crap. You don't know what I said. It doesn't matter. But every now and again, something happens that you remember. And this is one that I remember. And he said, we serve a God that offers us his presence because explanations don't help. He offers us his presence and he offers us his hope because what we need in moments of profound grief is not explanations. We need him. And so Jesus weeping in John 11 is a depiction of the fact that we have a God that in moments of profound grief offers us his empathy. And he offers us his tears. And he offers us his presence. So that is the Cliff Notes version of that sermon. If I were going to preach that sermon, I would just add in some other illustrations and some other points and make it last 30 minutes, but I would just say that. That's the answer to grief, is that our God doesn't offer us explanations because we can't really handle them and we can't really understand them, but he offers us his presence. And that's unique in the pantheon of gods that the world would offer to us. So with that being said, if we can together as a room set that aside and go, okay, there's some grief that requires profound empathy from God. And it might not have a purpose and it might not be on, it might not be God's plan. It might just happen. And we have to process that and deal with that. And that's one of the things that I think for sure is that no one dodges the raindrops of tragedy in their life. Everyone deals with profound grief. And the reality of the world is, according to Romans 8, that all of creation yearns for the return of the king to set right this creation. And then the verse that I point out all the time in Revelation, at the end of days, there'll be no more weeping and no more crying and no more pain anymore for the former things have passed away. And so sometimes we just accept that profound grief is part of those former things that we will not have to deal with in eternity. And so we set those aside and God is present with us in that suffering. But there are other kinds of suffering that don't fit in that box and that we don't talk about enough. And so this morning, what I want to invite you to do is instead of thinking about all of suffering and all sadness and all grief in that box, can we create another larger box for other kinds of suffering? And I believe that it's Hebrews 12 that actually creates this box for us and this other way to think about why sometimes suffering happens in our lives. I want to read to you Hebrews chapter 12, verses 4 through 12. It's a lot, but it's important, so we're going to process it together. Here's what it says. In your struggle against sin, you have not resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And you have completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son or his child. It says, my son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline. And do not lose heart when he rebukes you. Because the Lord disciplines the one he loves and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. Here's the encouragement. Endure hardship as discipline. God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined and everyone undergoes discipline, then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the father of spirits and live? They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best, but God disciplines us for our good in order that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Therefore, and I'm coming back to this verse because this is a good one. Strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees, he says. So here's what this passage allows us to understand and begin to frame up about the occurrences of suffering and hardship in our life. In some suffering, like we just talked about, there is empathy. But in most suffering, there is purpose. So in some suffering, it's so gut-wrenching and heartbreaking that I would never look at Carla Gerlach and tell her after her child knocked on the coffin and say, when is dad going to wake up? I would never whisper in her ear, hey, God has a purpose for this and you're going to be better for it. I would never do that. That would be clumsy and stupid. And if you ever say that to someone who's just lost a loved one, you should be slapped in the face right away or chopped in the throat. Just something. Maybe backhanded, old school style. That'd be great with a glove. That's a clumsy, stupid thing to say. Please don't say that to people. So sometimes profound suffering, there is empathy. Jesus weeps. But what I would posit to you, for you to assess on your own, is whether or not most suffering is actually allowed by God and is purposeful. In some suffering, there is empathy. But in most suffering, there is purpose. And so what we want to focus on today is the suffering that God allows for that purpose. And what I want to encourage you to think about is some times in your life when you've suffered, some times in your life when you've hurt, or maybe what you're walking through right now that is difficult, a difficult relationship, job, friendship, situation with your children, maybe your marriage is hard, maybe work is tough right now. Every one of us has a pain point in our life, something that's causing us to suffer. And so what I want to encourage you to do this morning is to consider those things and to ask the question, is it possible that what I don't need in this situation is empathy? What I actually need is to believe in the purpose that God has in allowing this to occur in my life. With that in mind, I want to revisit verses six and seven because I think there's a profound truth there. Verse six says, because the Lord disciplines the one he loves and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. Seven, endure hardship as discipline. God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? And then if you go on an eight, it says if you're not disciplined, you're actually being neglected. You don't belong to him. And as I read that, and as I was preparing this sermon, in my house that week, my daughter Lily and I had a tough day. I don't know if you know this, but my children as pastor's children are not perfect. And if you'd like to judge me for that, up yours, because neither are your kids, okay? So let's just cover that right there. And Lily and I are very similar. And we had a day where we butted heads. And there were big emotions. And she's nine, she's allowed big emotions. We have to learn to process those. And she says some things to me that would, frankly, have gotten my butt beat when I was a kid. That would have been a big, regretful decision. And so later, I came back to her when things were calm. I said, hey, I love you. And here's a phrase that I use with her a lot. I love you too much to allow you to act like that. I love you too much to allow you to say things like that. I love you too much to allow you to think that that is an okay way to respond in situations like that. Because I love you that much, there will be consequences for your actions. You will feel pain, which usually comes in the form of screen time. Or mommy's not going to sing songs to you tonight. That's the worst. That's a big one. But I have to tell my daughter who I love. And I have to tell my son who I love. And my parents had to tell me this. I love you too much to not do everything in my power to fashion you into who God created you to be. That's my job. And I love you too much to not do that. Now in the moment, this for her is painful. But let's put on our big boy and our big girl pants and ask the question, is it possible that sometimes God allows pain in our lives that hurts very much, that is very inconvenient and uncomfortable, because he loves us too much to not fashion us into the people that he created us to be. Is it not possible that some pain and some suffering, and I would posit most pain and suffering, is actually good? Is this not possible, this idea that some pain is from God? We don't talk about this a lot. I don't preach about this a lot. Pastors don't like to bring this up. But is it possible that some pain and grief, that where your mind goes as you identify the suffering in your life and the things that are hard in your life? Is it not possible that God is using those things to fashion you into the person he wants you to be because he loves you too much to not work on you in that way? Is it possible that your suffering is actually a result of your father's love? The idea for this sermon actually came from my trip to Istanbul in March. And I don't mean to keep bringing it up, but clearly, I can't just preach out of that trip forever. You guys will get tired of it. But clearly, it was an impactful trip for me. And this is actually the sermon that I'm giving you today. It's a truncated version of my friend's slide deck. It's a 90-minute presentation called Sonship and Suffering based in Hebrews chapter 12. So I'm giving you the 25-minute version of it because I took five minutes to talk about other suffering. You don't even have to sit through the 90 minutes, okay? I'm saving you from that suffering. So you should be grateful. And he preached this. He taught this to a room of Iranian pastors who suffer for their faith. And let's just be very clear about this, okay? I'm not going to belabor this point because if you can't agree with me on it, you're an unreasonable person. Iranian Christians suffer more than American ones, okay? And he preached it to them. And I asked him, where do you get off preaching this to Iranian pastors risking their families for their faith from the comfort of Chapel Hill? I didn't phrase it like that. It was nicer, but that was the question. And he said, it's in the Bible. I'm a general. I have to deploy the troops, and this is what's required. And that was moving. But if it's true in that room, it's true here. And here's the other thing that he helped me understand about the Lord's discipline. And this is really important. Do you realize that not all discipline is punitive? Not all discipline is punitive. We submit ourselves to discipline all through life that is uncomfortable at the time because we believe what it will bring about. So not, not all discipline is punitive. And it kind of, this bomb went off in my head where I was like, oh, so God could be allowing me to suffer, not because I did anything wrong or anything bad or because he's disappointed in me. He just sees this needs to happen. And so he's allowing this hardship to happen in my life to bring about a greater good later, not all discipline is punitive. And I immediately went back to the season in my life that I've talked about a few times when I was an assistant football coach for a small private school. And the head coach was a man that I loved named Robert McCready, Coach McCready. Coach McCready was a recon Marine in Vietnam, baby. He crawled around shirtless in tunnels, rooting out the Viet Cong. He was a tough son of a gun. And he ran tailback for Auburn in the 60s. And we would have summer workouts, optional for the team. Optional because you don't have to come, but if you don't come, you will never play. So optional, right? We'd have summer workouts. And the first thing he would do in these summer workouts is he would line the team all up and he would tell them to get on the ground and do stretches and do pushups and do sit-ups. He would lay them on the grass. And the grass in the South, you know, is covered with dew. And he called these exercise dew soakers. That's what he called them. I'm going to roll them around and get them to soak up the dew in their shorts and in their shirts so that we can have a dry field to practice on. And the dew is going to make them uncomfortable and teach them to be tough. So suck it up. These are dew soakers. Now listen. Had any of those kids done anything wrong? No. Did any of those kids do anything to deserve having to soak up the dew? Yeah, they showed up. That's discipline. It's uncomfortable. It's painful at the time. But it was to bring about a result later. By the way, we won back-to-back-to-back championships. So, you know, do some do-soakers. Pretty good. We have a way of thinking about discipline and even assigning it to God. Is it possible that God's allowing pain in our life that somehow that's punitive pain? That's not how we think about discipline in other areas of our life. It's just something that we need. And here's the better way to think about it. And Hebrews 12 actually frames it up for us. Hebrews 12, verse 11. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. And so what he explains is, yeah, there's times in our life where we go through painful experiences. And no discipline at the time is pleasant. Soaking the dew with your shorts and letting it get on your underwear and make you uncomfortable while you run around for two and a half hours is unpleasant. But it brought about a result that they were all committed to. This is how the Lord's discipline and pain works in our life. One of the most difficult seasons that I've ever been through in my life was from about fourth grade to somewhere in sixth grade when I was bullied pretty badly by kids in my neighborhood. I know that you look at me and you're like, but Nate, you're so cool and charismatic and awesome. How could that possibly happen? It's a crazy time. But I had these older kids that lived in my neighborhood. And a good instance is there was one day where they had found these industrial-sized rubber bands. And they snipped them so they were just long. And they hid in the bushes. They got off the bus before I did. So they hid in the bushes at the bus stop and they waited for me to get off the bus. And they chased me home home popping me with these rubber bands in my ears and my neck and in my legs and making me cry. And I can sense that some of you are taking joy in this story. Alright? I'm going to preach about repentance next week. You need to deal with that. But they sent me home making me cry and they called me names. And it was a really hard season. It really was a season of profound bullying. And I honestly, as I think about it now, I have this vivid memory of sitting on the couch with my mom, with her holding me as I'm crying because I've just been bullied again. And she's crying. And she said, I wish I could be bullied for you, which is the instinct of every parent. Of course, of course. John fell down yesterday and scraped his knee. And my first thought was, I wish I could fall for you, buddy. That's the instinct. And so as painful as it was for me, I think there's an argument to be made that it would be more painful for my mom. But that was a season of hardship. But let me tell you something. I was talking with a friend this week. And I told him that being a pastor is weird. And I'm not trying to elicit your sympathy here. This is for a point, okay? And I think it illustrates it well. I don't mean to talk about myself in this way. But I said, being a pastor is weird. Because I don't know if you've ever thought about this or not, but when you're a pastor, everyone that you meet in your whole life instantly has an expectation of your behavior. It's just true. Everyone I ever meet, as soon as they learn my profession, they have a backlog of things that they think I should live up to. We may agree about those ideas, we may not, but that's what they think. Because I was bullied and given a thick skin and able to learn important lessons about not letting the opinions of others impact how I think about myself or how I feel, I am able with that reality to say this. This might sound harsh to you. And I don't mean it to be. It's just the truth. I have developed, between me and God and people that I love, standards for myself and my behavior. And I see that it is my responsibility to live up to God's expectations of me and live up to my expectations of myself for my behavior. And if my expectations for myself align with yours, wonderful. If they don't, there's other churches. Take off. Doesn't matter. Not going to affect me. Why can I do that? Because God allowed me to be bullied from fourth to sixth grade and insisted that I develop a tough skin because I believe that he saw down the road what he was going to ask me to do, what my assignment was going to be. At the time, the discipline was painful, but I believe wholeheartedly that it had a greater purpose. And I can tell you earnestly that I'm grateful for those years in my life because of who they fashioned me into to prepare me for the road that God was going to have me walk later. Yeah? I don't know what you're dealing with. a fruit down the years that you can't see. But I do know that it's possible. And I know that if every time we endure hardship and pain, we put it in that first box of just pain that deserves empathy. And this is terrible and woe is me and sometimes life is hard. That we miss the larger box of the rest of our pain that is imbued with purpose and allowed by God because he loves us too much not fashion us. Into the people that he created us to be. And so I very simply. Want to invite you this morning. As you go through grief and stress. And suffering and trials. To regard those things. As something that quite possibly. God has allowed in your life because he loves you too much to not fashion you into the person he's created you to be. And the final encouragement with that in mind, and is it possible that God's allowed pain in my life because it's going to bring about a greater good? The final encouragement I have for you is this, Hebrews 12, 12. I told you we were coming back to it. You probably forgot, but I didn't. Verse 12, therefore strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees, which allows me to put on the screen. My favorite thing I've ever put on the screen at grace, suck it up, buttercup deal with it. It might be good. Strengthen your feeble arms and your weak knees. Bear up under it. God might have a purpose for this. And it's quite possible that you can get decades down the road and be very grateful for the pain that you're complaining about right now. So let's think about suffering that way too. It's not all terrible and purposeless and awful. Some of it God means for us. And I believe it's possible that the pain you're enduring right now will be something that you see with gratitude and retrospect. So suck it up. Let's pray. Father, thank you for this morning. Thank you for the times in our life that are hard, that we don't understand. Thank you for the way that you fashion us, for the fact that you love us too much to abscond on your duty as a father and leave us to our own devices. Thank you for your discipline. Father, I pray that for those of us who are hurting, for those of us who are going through a hard time, God, if that is a season that evokes and warrants your empathy and your weeping, would we rest in that? But Father, if it's possible that it's a season that's simply you loving us by allowing us discomfort now for a greater glory and good later, God, I pray that we would invite that and allow that and appreciate that. Father, I lift up grace to you. Lift up these people in our church. I'm so grateful for it. I'm so grateful for them. I'm so grateful for you. Let us have a good time celebrating with our families today and tomorrow. In Jesus' name, amen.

Good morning. How are you guys doing today? Hey, if you are new or if you are visiting, my name is Aaron, and I get the privilege to serve as your worship pastor out here, and I can't tell you how glad I am that you're here today. If you are watching online, I'm half as glad that you're watching just because you're not present, and you're probably stealing your PJs, so it doesn't really count. But no, so, so glad that you guys decided to join us. Nate, thank you so much, man, for allowing me to share what's been on my heart over this last week or so. Well, we'll see. We'll see. Let's see. Let's pray and go home. Hey, so if you're just joining us, I've missed over the last couple of weeks, we've been in a series called Frequently Asked Questions, or FAQs if you're an efficient person. And what we did is several months ago, we sent out a request from our small groups. Hey, give us some questions. If you could ask the church anything. If you had any questions that went unanswered. Maybe you grew up in church. There was just some confusion surrounding this. What questions would you ask? And so that's what we've been doing is we're taking some of these topics, some of these questions that were presented, and we're talking about them with you guys. If you guys wish you would have had input, then you should be in a small group. It's just another good reason for that. And so today, what we're talking about is why does an all-powerful God need our worship? And it's a great question. And again, as your worship pastor is one I'm extremely excited to talk about. There is a little bit of a weight to this, though, because as a worship pastor, if I don't do a good job in explaining to us why we need to worship, I may not be a worship pastor tomorrow. So there's a lot more than the next 30 minutes riding on this, all right? So I'm going to do my best to get us there. But it's a fantastic question. Just because the question itself presents this contradiction that we have to wrestle to the ground. Why does an all-powerful God need? Like from the beginning of your Bible, the first words in your Bible talk about how God is the creator of all things. He is all-powerful and in need of nothing. Yet we see throughout scriptures that he wants and needs our worship. It even goes so far to say is he is jealous for our worship? He commands our worship. It just sounds icky, right? I mean, because I remember writing through this sermon, I wrote down that line. Why does God command our worship? It just, there's something about that that feels off. So why? What's the purpose of that? And before we get too far into this, I have to make sure that we're on the same page with what we're talking about when we say worship. It's one of those things that seem to have gotten lost in translation. Some of you remember, because you remind me of it often, when I was trying to impress my wife by speaking Spanish, and I just wanted to tell her that I want to go to Five Guys. And instead, I said, I want five men. That's not what I meant. Like, I said the exact words, but it didn't mean the same thing, right? And so that's happened with worship in our life. Like, we tend to reduce worship down to the acts. Stop laughing. It's not that funny. I'm trying to preach. Nate said I have to do good. I may not have a job tomorrow, and you're distracting me by making fun of me. I hear it. No, but we have a tendency to reduce worship down to singing. Maybe you include in it the acts or the spiritual disciplines, right? Like you'll include praying, reading your Bible, quiet time, going to church. And those are certainly acts of worship. They're certainly involved in worship, but they're actions that come from a deeper form of worship that we read about throughout the New Testament. The word that's predominantly used to describe worship in the New Testament is proskuneo. And it literally means to kiss towards. And it's used to convey this idea and this image of bowing down to surrendering to the will of. It's the same thing that would happen. That's the word that would be used as if you entered a king's court and you bowed before. You would be surrendering to the will of. You would put your hope in. It's so much more than just singing. The worship we're talking about, the worship that God is jealous for, the worship that God asks for from us is a surrendering of our will. A surrendering to his will. It's what we center our lives around. It's what we center our lives around because it promises something that fulfills us. It's the thing that we center our hope and our dependency on. That's the worship we're talking about today. But even that, you have to dig in just a little bit. Why does it matter to God if he's the center of anything? Why does he have to be the center of my world? I mean, we know people like that, right? If you're married, ladies, your husband, when he's sick, is very needy. He has to be the center of attention. And what do we do? Like, it's exhausting. We attribute to people like that that we try to avoid. We say, they're really needy and they need a lot of attention. Maybe we use the words controlling. We say, hey, I just don't want to. They don't care very much about anybody else. They're pretty self-absorbed. And those are uncomfortable questions to sit with. Like how is God any different than that? So that's what we're going to talk about today. Paul addresses this exact question to the people in Athens. He's going on one of his many missionary journeys, and he comes into the town of Athens. And Athens, I haven't been there, but just from the things that I've read about, it would have been an absolutely incredible city to visit because of the architecture. It was just stunning, and the art that existed. I had a chance to go to Paris several years ago and went to the Louvre and got to go into the area that had all the ancient Greek statues and just all of that. Some of them were gold. Some were made of marble, silver, yet stone that they were used of. And those lined the streets in Athens. It would have been an incredible sight. But Acts 17 verse 16 tells us that when Paul walked into Athens, he was greatly distressed. Like some versions of your Bible will say, his spirit was shaken. It just, he was rattled to the core. Because for the Athenians, like they weren't just statues, they weren't just works of art, they weren't just pretty things to look at, but they were, they represented gods. Gods and goddesses. And that it was affectionately known as the city of idols, idols. Like I've heard it said that if you were to go to ancient Athens, that it was easier to run into a god than it was a person. I've heard it, I saw one source that said there were over 30,000 statues and idols that were throughout the city in Athens. And Paul was just rattled by this. He was rattled by seeing all of these objects of worship. And so what he started to do was just tell people about Jesus. He started to proclaim the good news. And some of the philosophers and the Stoics in the area, they said, hey, we want to know about this God you're telling about. Clearly, we're open to all kinds of forms of religion. We have them all over the place. Tell us about your God. I need to know a little bit more detail in here. And so what Paul ends up telling them is as he's talking about their God, he does talk that God wants our worship. But what he points out to them is that God wants our worship because he wants something for us, not from us. When God commands our worship, it's because he sees a need that he's trying to fill. And this is what he says to him in Acts 17 in verse 22. Paul then stood up in the meeting and said, people of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with the inscription to an unknown God. So you were ignorant of the very things that you worship. And this is what I'm going to proclaim to you. So it wouldn't be a Paul type approach without some kind of dig in there. Like, I don't know what kind of man tries to persuade somebody. Hey, you're just a little ignorant. That's all. That seems like a rough way to start. But Paul is typically a very upfront, very direct, very kind of pull no punches type of preacher, right? Like he's very quick to rebuke. He's very quick to just say what you're doing wrong, but he doesn't seem to take that approach here. The very first thing that he does is he acknowledges, hey, man, I see how religious you are. I see the high esteem that you hold your objects of worship, and I see how much they influence and impact your life because all of the gods, all of the gods represented something that they would want. And so the Athenians' life was shaped around pleasing the gods. You would see festivals thrown. You would see them being marched down the street. You would see songs being sung about them. You would see altars. You would see incense burning. Like all of these different, like they just held in such high regard. And what Paul comments on is, hey, listen, I see that you want deeply. And I see that you hold in a high place all of your objects of worship. It's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. And what they were doing is they were shaping their lives around the promises of these idols, of these objects of worship. They were trying deeply to not offend them. You don't want to get on their bad side. You don't want to do the things that are going to make them not bless you. You also want to do the things that they're going to provide in their pursuit of comfort, in their pursuit of pleasure, in their pursuit of fulfillment and meaning. Their lives were shaped by the gods they trusted. Now, for us, it's hard to relate to something like that because we don't really worship objects like that in the western part of the world, right? Like if I walked into your house, I wouldn't see you rub baby Buddha's belly for good luck. That's just not a thing that we do. We don't bow to Athena. We don't bow to Apollos. And honestly, that's the thing that makes it a little bit more difficult to point out the things that we worship. The things that I was talking about earlier, the things that we surrender our will to. But we don't bow to the will of Athena. But we do have a tendency to bow at the altar of success and status. We don't go out of our way to please Apollos or Zeus. But we will shape our lives around the pursuit of power and influence. And here's the thing. This is what makes these so tricky, is they're not bad things. Like they're good things. Comfort is a good thing. It just makes a crummy God. And this is what Paul is pointing out to them. Hey, you have these desires. You're looking for these things to find fulfillment. You're looking for these things in your life that you feel like are going to offer you value and offer you worth. But look at what's shaping you. Like I love the way that Augustine talks about this. He says that it's a matter of disordered love. Like, it's not that we love the wrong things. We love the right things, but in the wrong order. Because whatever's at the top of the list, like, that's what has the steering wheel. That's what determines our steps. That's what determines who we become. That's what we are placing all of our hope in. And whatever's at the top of the list, it will cause us to make sacrifices, even for things on our list that's just a little bit lower. And so Paul, when he walks into Athens and he sees them so heavily invested in pursuing something, it's not a matter of if we worship. It's a matter of what. It's a matter of who we worship. And this is what Paul is pointing out to the people in Athens. And this is what he says. In verse 24, it says, and this is what I'm going to proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, he's the Lord of heaven and earth, and he does not live in temples built by human hands, and he is not served by human hands as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. So right there, Paul immediately answers our question, right? That God's not in need. And I can kind of see this picture of Paul standing around looking at the statues. And what he's telling the Athenians is that God is the only one worthy of your worship because he's the only one who can carry the weight of your worship. Like I kind of have this picture of him standing around and he's looking at the statues, maybe surrounded by some of the idols while he's talking to the people. And he says, like this, like you created this. Like this wouldn't exist if it weren't for you. Like you gave this thing shape and it's the thing that you're going to trust to shape your life. Like you legitimately have to dust your gods. What kind of God is that to trust with your life? What kind of God is it? He has no power. And so what Paul is doing, the way he, I think he approaches the topic the way that he does, not with a firm slap, but it's just this empathetic, no, no, no, I understand you have a longing for something. You have a longing for fulfillment. You have a longing for purpose. You were born with an understanding and an awareness of your needs. That need creates pursuit in your life. What you were pursuing to give you that value, man, it's powerless. It wouldn't exist. Like it was created by you. And he contrasts that with God. But look at the God that I serve. Let me tell you about him. He's the creator of heaven. He's the creator of earth. In him, he is the guy who we actually get our breath from. He gives life. Like, he wasn't created. He is the giver of life. He doesn't need you to build him a house. Like, he exists everywhere. He was there before the foundation of the world. And what Paul points out is that, no, God doesn't need anything. But he says it in such a way that compels them to offer their worship, to direct their worship to the only one who can actually satisfy, the only one who can actually do something, the only one who can actually give them purpose, who can give them fulfillment, who can give them satisfaction in the things that they pursue. I don't know what it may be for you. I don't know what it is that has kind of crept in and we have placed our hope in and has grabbed a hold of our heart. Like to find that you can ask questions like, okay, what is it that you feel like I only have value and I only have worth if fill in the blank? And if this thing is taken away from me, like the bottom falls out. And what Paul is pointing to is like, man, aren't you tired? Aren't you exhausted and perpetually disappointed? Like what you're pursuing is a good thing, but where you're going, the direction you're moving forward to try to grab it, like it's, are you not constantly let down at the empty promises of the things you lift and raise to the position of God. I love Timothy Keller. He calls them counterfeit gods. They're full of promises. And so we devote our life to them. They become the center of our pursuit. The way we treat people is impacted by the highest desire. The sacrifices we make are chosen by the highest desire. And I don't know, have you ever been on the other side of that journey? To where something is so heavily pursued, and then maybe you grab it, but you look at who you became to get there. And it wasn't worth it. It left you wanting. It left you needing. Like you thought it was going to provide the satisfaction. You thought the promotion, you thought the raise, you thought the job was going to give you everything. You thought, okay, I'm going to, all I need is this. And then once it arrives, like it arrives, it feels like you're running this race with a moving finish line. You just never can quite get there. And what Paul says to the Athenians, no, no, God doesn't need your worship to give him value. That's like saying that a waterfall is benefited by you pouring a glass of water in it. Like it's the appropriate place. But it does nothing for the water. That's actually the source of the water. And this is Paul's argument. He's, hey, would you, it almost reads more like an invitation than it does a rebuke. Like, are you not exhausted? Like, your pursuit of the career, has it cost you to sacrifice relationship with family? Like, your pursuit of image management, has it cost you to be overbearing and just focusing on the behavior of others? And just, like, is it costing you more than what it's promising to give? That's the question that Paul is putting in front of him. And I love, I love how he finishes that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him. He is not far from any one of us, for in him we live, and in him we move, and in him we have our beings. As some of your own poets have said, we are his offspring. Like, so what Paul is pointing out, hey, you were created with an awareness for more. You were created with an awareness that you need something greater. You were created with an awareness for more. You were created with an awareness that you need something greater. You were created to pursue more. You were created with an awareness of your limitations. And just that causes us to move towards something. It causes us to yearn and long for something. And what Paul says is all of the things that you've elevated to the status of God, all of these statues, all of these things, hey, you weren't created for them. You will never find, you will never find the satisfaction that you're longing for. You will never find the purpose that you're hoping for. You will never find you being the person you desire to be by elevating these gods to a position in your life that causes you to bow to their will. You were created for God. You were created by God, for God, to be loved by God, and to find fulfillment in God. It's not that all of these other things don't matter. But it's that you're not dependent upon them. You aren't dependent on them for survival, or you aren't dependent, like if they were taken away, you're like, no, that's okay. That's okay. God's in control. I trust him with my life. I trust him with my tomorrow. I trust him with my right now. I am going to continue to offer him my praise. I am going to continue to allow him to be the center of my world. I'm going to continue to allow him to be the one that I place all of my focus on. This is Paul's argument. And what he's telling the people of Athens, and I think he would tell, how he would answer this question. The question that we started out with is God doesn't command our worship because he's controlling. He does it because he's loving. Like I think about this story that we talked about it maybe, I think, in the last series, Mark's Jesus. And in Mark 10, you see this, you may remember, you see this picture and this story of the rich young ruler who goes to Jesus. And he goes to Jesus and he's asking him, hey, listen, I really want, I want to follow you. I want to serve you. I want, I legitimately want to inherit the kingdom of heaven like it's promised. I want to live that life. What do I need to do? And I love the text where it says Jesus looks at him and he loved him. And what he told him is the thing that has a grip on his heart. He said, listen, as long as that's number one, it's never going to let you live the life that you desire because that's what's shaping you. And what's heartbreaking about that story is it says the guy walked away like money had such a grip on his heart. It says he walked away grieving because he just couldn't let go of what he worshiped the most. He couldn't trust God the way that Jesus was asking him to trust him because of the promise that wealth provided. Like I said, I don't know what it may be for you. It's hard to identify. Because with the Athenians, it was a transactional type of worship. It was all external. I'll do this for you, and you do this for me. But for us, it's something that happens internally. It's something that grabs our heart. And it's disguised as good, because it is good. It's just not a worthy God. I can tell you, there was a few years ago in my life, I don't remember exactly what the situation was, but I know control started to get really, really big. Like there was anxiety that was brewing in my life, and I felt like I needed more control over everything. And so I remember reading through the scriptures, and I came to the text where Jesus, just before he started his ministry, he spent 40 days in the wilderness. He spent 40 days and what stood out to me is he spent 40 days before he began, he spent 40 days in the place where he had to depend on God. He had to be in a place in the desert where he depended on God and as he came out of that, he lived the life that he lived. And so what struck me is like, man, is that what happened in my life? Have I gotten to the place where my dependency on God has fallen below my dependency on something else? And so I did this. It was more of a, it was just a little spiritually intentional journey. That's why I went out backpacking. I don't know anything about backpacking. Never backpacked, but I did it by myself. The only thing I knew is don't come across people because I don't trust them in bear's bite. Like that's the extent. And if you don't eat, you'll starve. So I went with about a 60 pound bag on my back. But it was all with the intention, I need to put myself in a place where I depend on God. Because when I find myself depending more deeply on God, I find freedom. So what Paul is inviting the Athenians to do, hey, rest. He's inviting them to place their trust, their hope, and center their life around God. He's inviting them to a deeper dependency on God. Maybe as we're starting to talk about the things that are idols, it's popped in your mind. Maybe there's something right about that. Yeah, yeah, no, image management's definitely something. Oh, yeah. What's funny is even religiosity can become how holy I look, how good I seem to people. Doing the right things, like that can become something we depend on. Family can become like they can't carry the weight of our worship. Your family, your spouse, your husband, your kids. Listen to me, listen to me. They cannot carry the weight of providing fulfillment, purpose, and meaning in your life. They weren't designed for that. Your work, it can't provide meaning and purpose and fulfillment and value in your life. Because if it's gone, so is everything that came with it. And Paul's invitation is, hey, aren't you exhausted? Depend on God. And so what we're going to do, in one second, I'm going to invite you to stand and just sing this song. And you've heard me say before that our songs, our songs are important. But our songs, when we come together, they're simply prayers put to a melody. Sometimes they're prayers that are saying, hey, God, you're awesome. God, you're great. And oftentimes they're also prayers that say, hey, God, I need you in this area of my life. And there's this line that I want us to focus on in this next song. It simply says, God, I depend on you. I depend on you. And listen, just to make sure that I still have a job tomorrow, singing is important, okay? You got to do it. You got to do it. Otherwise, you got to hire me. But well, and here's the other sad point behind it. If you don't like singing, like I know we got some folks who just wait for the second half of the service, like whenever the message is there and the good stuff happens, you just kind of hang out in the hall. Listen to me. You're going to hate heaven, right? You know what you're going to do? You're going to be singing the entire time. You will be miserable. Because there's no way, there's no lobby outside. That's outside the gate. You don't want to be there, get you behind inside and sing. Like, it's worth it. But I'm going to invite you to stand and just make this your prayer. Maybe it's something. God, I just, I have a hard time shaking this object of worship, this misplaced worship in my life, Lord, and I want to depend on you. Can you help me? Will you help me depend on you? So let me pray for us, and then let's see. Father, thank you so much. I thank you, Lord, for your love, for your faithfulness and for your kindness. God, I thank you for planting in us an awareness of our need for something greater. God, I just ask for you to help. Help us to keep you the center, not meaning that we don't pursue other things, not meaning that other things aren't important to us, but we place them in their appropriate order. And we allow you to shape our life. We allow you to determine who we become. And God, we don't worship you because we get something from you. We worship you because you're worthy. We worship you because you're holy. We worship you because you are the only one who is worthy of our worship. We thank you. We need you. Amen.

All right, well, good morning. You already know my name is Nate. I got introduced earlier. Thank you for being here on Mother's Day. These two are laughing because I'm preaching directly to you for the whole service. Right there in the middle. Thanks for being here. I like Mother's Day. I love the celebration of Mother's Day. I'm genuinely sorry that we don't have enough seats for everyone. We don't normally dedicate 11 babies and their subsequent families. And I'm also sorry if you had issues parking. But if you did, you could always just be on time and then, you know, not a problem. Before I just launch into the sermon, it's important to me on Mother's Day to express this. Mother's Day is a good day, and you get to express your gratitude for your mom. And mamas deserve to be celebrated. They work harder than dads. They just do. And I hope that you have a good mom that you're able to celebrate today. And if you're married, I hope you're able to celebrate your wife who's a good mom. And so it should be a joyful day. But I also know, because I've experienced some, that Mother's Day sometimes comes with mixed emotions. Sometimes it's been pretty recent since we lost our mom, and so Mother's Day becomes difficult. Or maybe we didn't have a great mom, and so Mother's Day kind of induces envy or disappointment. Or maybe we want desperately to be a mom and we are not. And so Mother's Day causes us to want and to be sad. So what I want to do before I just launch into the sermon that has absolutely nothing to do with Mother's Day, I just want to pray for the good mamas in the room and in our lives, but also pray for those of us for whom Mother's Day is challenging. So pray with me, and then we'll get started. Father, we thank you for the good moms, for the ones that love well, that show up, that show us you, that nurtured us and cared for us. And we thank you for the opportunity to celebrate them. We thank you for the mamas in the room now. And I thank you, God, for the multiple generations in the room. And so we thank you for the good ones and the blessing that they are. God, I also just want to lift up those for whom today is challenging. For whatever reason that it might be challenging. Would they feel your presence? Would they feel your arms wrapped around them? Would they be comforted in the unique way that only you can do? I just lift them up to you, God. In Jesus' name, amen. All right, we are in a series. And when I said this has nothing to do with Mother's Day, I'm being serious. We're in a series called Frequently Asked Questions, FAQ. And we sussed it out to our small groups to generate some questions for us that we could address over a period of five or six weeks. And we've been moving through and kind of addressing some of those questions. Today, we got a lot of questions on doubt. We got a lot of questions around doubt. How much doubt is okay? When is it all right to doubt? What do I do with my doubt? How do I handle my doubt? Or I have these specific questions and I don't know the answers to them. And one of the reasons why I thought it might be appropriate to put it here today is because I'm not sure. I remember when I was 19 or 20 years old, I was part of a ministry called Young Life. And I grew up in church. Christianity is foundational to me. I have no memories that precede church. I was there every Sunday morning, every Sunday night, every Wednesday night. And if there was a weekend event, I was there too. So Christianity is a big part of my life. And so it made sense that in college, I would do the thing that good Christians do. Cause the environment that I grew up in was, um, if you're a good Christian, then become a, like go professional, be a really good one and be a minister, start getting paid for your Christianity. If you can't do that, get a good job in tithe. That was pretty much the idea. And I decided I was going to try to go pro. So I'm doing young life. And I remember having a conversation with the guy that led our team, a guy named Brian Krawczyk. I reached out to him one day and I said, hey, man, I really need to talk. And I went over to his little basement apartment. And I remember sitting there in tears saying, I'm not sure if I believe that God is real anymore. And he said, okay, you know, why are you thinking that? And I said, well, it started with my prayers because it feels like when I pray that my words are bouncing off the ceiling and back down to me and that they don't really mean anything. And it's just me talking to myself. And because I don't know if I believe that prayer actually works and because I don't know if my words are actually reaching the ears of some God somewhere, I don't know that I can believe in God anymore. And because I don't know if I can believe in God anymore, I don't know if I can continue to minister with you because it's inauthentic and doesn't make any sense. And I was kind of crying the whole time. And Brian responded to me rather ineloquently by saying, Nate, get a grip, dude. You believe in God. It's going to be okay. See you tomorrow night. That was pretty much it. I mean, that was along the short of it. But, you know, I was 19. Brian was 23. We weren't exactly swimming in wisdom. So that's fine at the time. But what I really remember from that conversation is how emotional I was about it. Because I had been a Christian my whole life. And I had had these doubts simmering in the back of my mind for longer than I realized. And when I finally expressed them and gave vent to them, I thought it meant that I was going to lose my faith. And I thought it meant that because I would lose my faith, I would lose my worldview, and it would shake the foundations of my very life. And so I was scared of it, but it got so urgent and so much that I felt like I was living duplicitously to not address it. So I had to. Because if you're a believer and you've been a believer for any length of time, you've orchestrated your life probably around the teachings found in here. And so when you start to have questions about this book, or you have questions about what's taught here, or about what someone tells you is taught here, those can become very scary things because we don't know what to do with it. Because if we question it, if we pull that thread too much, the whole thing could come unraveled. And if that's what's going to happen, then we don't want to deal with it. Or we could get judged, or we could get questioned, or we could feel like we're very confused. And so I'd be willing to bet, because since that day, when I was doing Young Life, I managed to stay professional. I managed to continue to get paid for being a Christian. It's been a long time now, over 20 years. I guess it's about 25 years. Jeepers, creepers. I've sat in a lot of circles. I've sat in circles with teenagers, with middle schoolers, with children, with adults, with pastors, with atheists. I've sat in a lot of circles and I've sat with people as they had the moment that I had and said, I don't know if I can believe anymore because of this or this or this. And so what I'd be willing to bet is that a vast majority of you in the room have experienced doubt in your life. You may be here and you're not a believer and you're like, yeah, that's all I've ever experienced. I get it. I get it. And for you, your doubt is easier because you're not tethered to faith. You're not tethered to Christianity. So it's not, it doesn't cause an emotional response to have it. You just have it. And that's fine. But for a believer, it's tethered to things. It's connected. It's all woven in. And so if we pull that thread, we worry that we may disappoint the people around us, that we may not know what to do with our world and with our faith. And so even though everybody in this room, at least I think, has experienced a season of doubt in their life or has questions that are yet unanswered, even though we've experienced that, I'm not sure that as a church we talk about how to handle it well. So that's what I want us to do this morning, is if we can agree, and I don't know if you do or you don't, but if we can agree that yes, I've walked through seasons of doubt in my life, or I'm currently right now experiencing profound doubt, and I have questions that go unanswered. Wonderful. Let's look at scripture and see what we should do with that doubt. By looking at the OG doubter of all doubters, Thomas. There's a guy named Doubting Thomas in the Bible. He's the captain of the doubt team. And so we're going to look at his doubt and we're going to look at how Jesus handles it more importantly. And then we're going to think about how that impacts how we should handle our doubt. John chapter 20, verses 24 through 29. Now Thomas, also known as Didymus, which pretty clear why I went by Thomas, one of the 12 was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So when Jesus came back, he had died, he'd been buried, he resurrected, he came back, he visited the disciples. For whatever reason, Thomas wasn't there. Probably working on a name change. So the other disciples told him, we have seen the Lord. But he said to them, unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where their nails were and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. A week later, his disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, peace be with you. Then he said to Thomas, put your finger here. See my hands? Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Stop doubting and believe. Thomas said to him, My Lord and my God. Then Jesus told him, Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. So we see the story, and it's a famous story, and maybe you've heard it before. Most of you probably have. And because of that story, we assign him the moniker Doubting Thomas. That's how he's known. And we do that because it's a negative thing, because Jesus tells him, it's in the text, stop doubting and believe. It's almost like a command or instruction from God, stop doubting and believe. And so the way that we tend to handle doubt is we tend to say that it comes from a weak faith or a lack of understanding, or if you'd only like do the work or whatever it might be, but we feel bad about it. And we feel like if Jesus could talk to us about it, he might say, stop doubting and believe. And here's what makes it really, really tough is when we grow up in church and we see the adults that are leading us, or we look at the generation before us and we see how they live out their faith and they never seem to be the one asking the doubt questions. The children ask the doubt questions. High schoolers are free to do it. College sometime. And then by the time you get in men's group, you better, you better be buttoned up and know the answers and quit asking those questions. You dumb, dumb,, that's kind of how we treat it. And so we don't ask those questions. And we bottle them up. Because we think doubt isn't allowed. We think, as church people, that doubt isn't allowed. That'll be up there on the screen in just a second. We think doubt isn't allowed. That's your first blank, for those of you who do that. And we think it's not allowed because we think it's typically frowned upon, or that we'll be judged for it, or that we're scared of it, and we just need to put our head down and believe. But what I want you to see this morning is how Jesus meets your doubt, because I think there is this erroneous idea in the church that when we have doubts, we're supposed to just believe. Stop doubting and believe, Jesus says. And so the church has parroted that teaching through the centuries and said, just tuck that away and believe. But let me go back to verse 27 and show you what Jesus does to Thomas' doubt. Verse 27. Then he said to Thomas, put your finger here. See my hands? Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Stop doubting and believe. I don't know if you noticed this when I read it. I wouldn't have because when other people are reading scripture to me, I barely pay attention. So if you didn't get it, don't worry. Jesus shows up and Jesus knows that Thomas has not believed him. Jesus knows that Thomas didn't believe the disciples. The disciples told him about Jesus and he said, no,, not buying it, not yet. Now, here's what I'd like to say about that doubt, too. It's easy to think of Thomas as a skeptic and going, I'm not believing it until I can see it. No way. But this is, I'm guessing, okay? I'm guessing. You don't have to agree with me on anything, but you definitely don't have to agree with me on this, okay? I'm guessing at this, not in the text. I'm just guessing. I think it's more likely than not that Thomas' main motivation in that doubt was that he thought it was too good to be true and is trying to protect his heart. Thomas loved Jesus. He left everything in his life to follow him nomadically for three years, to basically live in poverty and on handouts for three years to follow this man around and learn from him. And Thomas was expecting that Jesus was going to become a king and he would be in his inner circle of influential people. So not only does he love Jesus, but he's hung his hat on the hope of a future with Jesus. And then he shows up and they say, hey, Jesus is risen. And he says, I'm not going to believe it until I can touch him. It just doesn't sound like to me that he was skeptical of the disciples and didn't trust them or didn't believe it was possible. I think it's most likely that there was something good motivating his doubt, which was probably that's too good to be true. And my heart can't handle it if it's not. So I'm going to hope that it is and wait until I see him. Now, that's a guess. Don't know. It's conjecture. But that makes sense to me. And so Jesus shows up and apparently he knows that Thomas doesn't believe him, doesn't believe the disciples. He knows that he doubts Jesus. And Jesus has every right to show up in the room and say, peace be with you. And then just stand back with his arms folded, waiting for Thomas to come check out what he needs to check out. He has every right to do that. He has every right to at least wait until Thomas comes to him and shakes his hand. That's not what he does. If you read the text, he walks in the room. He says, peace be with you. And then he walks over to Thomas and he says, hey man, here are my hands. Touch them if you need to. Here's my side. Touch that if you need to. Okay, you good? Do you get what you need? Okay, stop doubting and believe. Jesus met Thomas in his doubt. Jesus met Thomas in his doubt. And let me tell you something. If you are in a season of doubt, if you have doubted, if you have questions, Jesus will meet you there. He will not wait for you to come to him. He's not sending back arms folded, disappointing that you don't know the answers to some things and that is starting to really nag you. And there's different kinds of doubt. There's lingering doubt that just kind of there and you can kind of ignore it. And sometimes people talk about it, but eventually it becomes urgent doubt where you're me crying in someone's office going, I don't know if I can carry this faith anymore because I have these questions that have become so big that I can't ignore them. But in those questions and in those seasons, if Jesus goes to Thomas, walks in the room, hey everybody, Thomas, here. Don't you think he does that for us? Don't you think he meets us in our doubt? I don't think that we have to fear it being not allowed because I am convinced that Jesus meets us in our doubt. And what happened was Thomas was experiencing doubt. Then he had a personal encounter with Christ. And Jesus, as a result of offering him that encounter and meeting him there, says, okay, now stop doubting and believe. This also is a subtle way to communicate with us and to remind us that belief is a choice. Believing in anything is a choice. I believe the Canes are going to take the series in five. I do. That's a choice. And I'm putting my heart on the line. It might get broken. Not really. It wouldn't break my heart. I'd be like, oh, that's a bummer for Christmas Artorias. And then I'd move on with my day. All belief in anything is a choice. It's choosing to believe in Jesus, that he is who he says he is, did what he said he did, is going to do what he says he's going to do, and hanging the hat of our hopes for our future on him. It's exactly what Thomas did. I love you, and everything in my future is anchored on you. That's what belief is, is to say, I'm going to choose to love you, I'm going to choose to believe in you. And I'm going to choose to place my hope in you for my future. That's what it is to believe. And it is a choice. There will never be enough proof one way or the other to completely convince us one way or the other with absolute certainty. So all belief at any point is a choice. This is why in Romans 8, Paul says, let me get my thoughts together on it. He says, we hope, something like in this we hope. And he says, we hope, who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. So what he's saying is we hope in the redemption that Christ offers. And you don't have to hope in things that you can see. But since we're hoping for what we can't see, we wait for it with patience. And I've mentioned this a couple of times before. Do you realize that in eternity, in heaven with God, we have no more use for hope and faith? Those fade away with the world. We don't need hope in heaven. It's been answered. It's been satisfied. We don't need faith in heaven. He's right there. But on this side of eternity, we have to have faith and we have to have hope. And where we put it is a choice. And so Jesus is saying to Thomas, I've given you what you asked for. I've shown up for you. Now make the choice to believe in me and to be done with your doubt. But he doesn't ask him to do it until he shows up. Several years ago, I was in Honduras with a group of high school seniors. And after Bible study one night, one of the girls, a girl named Allison, came up to me and she said, hey, can we talk? And she had some doubts. She grew up like I did, Christian family, except she had some older siblings who had kind of, I wouldn't even say deconstructed or moved away from the faith. They just kind of disengaged, deprioritized it. And it was messing with her. And their reasons for doing so were messing with her. And she didn't really know how to handle it or what to do. And she asked some questions, and I was honest with her. I said, those are good questions, and I don't have good answers for you right now. I said, but here's what I hope for you. Here's what I hope for you. I hope that you can have a personal encounter with Christ. So tomorrow we're going to go to a village and we're going to be in the back of a truck and we're going to be handing out bags of rice to the women in that community. And I said, sometimes we see Jesus in his work. When we do his work, we meet him there. And the way it works is some dudes get in the back of the truck and they grab the bags and they hand them down. But there's people at the end who are sitting and they're the ones handing the rice to the Honduran women. And I said, when we go tomorrow, Allison, what I want you to do is I'm going to make sure that you get on the end of the truck. And I want you to look those women in the eyes as you serve them with the love of Christ. And I just, and I want you to pray that you have an encounter with Christ there, that you see him in their eyes. And she came back to me crying after the event. She says, I saw it. I saw it. I don't know what it is. I can't explain it, but Jesus showed up today. And that helps me. And see, these personal encounters with Christ, when he shows up in our life in a meaningful way, serve as anchors for our faith. So that when we do encounter things that we don't understand and we encounter questions that are hard to answer and we have lingering doubts that we've never approached and we just don't know what to do with it. But when we've had these irrefutable personal encounters with Christ, when he's shown up in our life in a meaningful way and we see his presence, we can anchor our faith there and it tethers us together between our doubts and makes it easier to hold our doubts. And here's the other thing I'll say real quick. Parents in the room, the better you handle your doubts, the more you have to offer your children in theirs. I think part of the reason that so many people have moved away, who grow up in the church, move away from the church, particularly in this era of what's called deconstruction, is because they start to experience doubts in college and early adulthood, and they go to their parents with questions, and their parents are like, yeah, I never figured that out either. And they're like, okay, well, then see ya. The better you handle yours now, the better you can help them with theirs then. But we don't do this. We tuck it away. And what I prayed for Allison that day is that like Thomas, she would have a personal encounter with Christ that would anchor her faith in such a way that Jesus could say to her, Allison, I've showed up for you. Do you believe me? Okay, well then stop doubting and believe. And stop doubting doesn't mean not having those questions. It just means being comfortable with holding them until we can get them answered. I'm reminded of the passage that I love that I remind you guys of sometimes in the gospels where Jesus tells the crowds, it was getting, Jesus had this way. Uh, he had this very intentional way of thinning the herd. Anytime his ministry got too big, he said something that self that sounded crazy. And half the people were like, okay, we'll see you later. And the craziest one he ever said is before he had died in resurrection and installed communion, he said, I tell you the truth, you cannot follow me unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood. And people like, yo, cannibalism's kind of, that's a line for me. Can't do it. And so a bunch of people left and Jesus looks at his disciples and he says, are you going to leave me too? And Peter says, one of my favorite things in the Bible, he says, you are the Christ, the son of God. Where are we going to go? Meaning, I don't understand what you just said. Or in our case, I don't have answers to all of my questions, but I know that you're Jesus. Where else can I go? But these personal encounters, when Jesus encounters us personally, it's only then that he says to us, now choose to believe and hold your doubts well, or stop doubting them or start letting them prohibit your belief. And I would say this too about doubt, as opposed to it being not allowed, I would say that doubts, often doubt is an indication of health. Very often these doubts that we carry is an indication of a healthy, more robust faith. It would be very problematic if your faith and your understanding of your faith was the exact same as it was at whatever point in your life you became saved. I shared last week that I got saved when I was four and a half because they scared me with hell. And I was like, I don't want to do that. And so then I got saved. If I still had that same understanding of my faith that brought me to salvation in the first place, that would be remarkably unthoughtful and unprogressive. We ought to mature in our faith and better understand our faith. And we ought to question and poke and prod our faith so that it can become ours and so that it can become something that we hold. Not something that we're mimicking from someone else, but something that we own because we've been satisfied intellectually and emotionally and spiritually with the robustness of this faith that we've progressed towards. And some of us grew up in traditions, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, whatever. Some of us grew up in traditions and you've never been outside that tradition. And you just took all the answers that the pastors and the teachers gave you about all the things, and that's just what you've believed too. And I can't tell you, I can't speak for other pastors, I can speak for me. I am certain, I've been preaching for eight years, I am certain that in that time, I've taught you some wrong stuff. Probably this morning. Who knows? I'm certain I've made mistakes. I'm certain that I have said things that it would actually serve you better to disagree with than to just accept. And I would be deeply concerned for you and the way you think about your faith if you've been listening to me preach for eight years and you go, I've never had any questions. That would be remarkably unthoughtful, wouldn't it? Don't you think it's remarkably unthoughtful to grow up as a Baptist and just assume that they're right about everything all the time ever, even though there's like myriad other denominations that all seem to have some good ideas and some smart people too. Doubts and questions are more often than not an indication of a healthy faith, of a thoughtful and ultimately a more robust faith. Conversely, unexpressed doubt is a cancer. Unexpressed doubt is deeply unhealthy. Those questions that linger, that we never resolve, that we never give vent to because we're afraid of what the answers might be or because it's going to be hard or because it requires work or because people might look down on us or whatever it is. Those questions that we have about our faith that we don't answer, those are not healthy. Having doubt is healthy. It's indication of being thoughtful and serious about our faith. But unexpressed doubt that we just hold and we never deal with and we push down, that's a cancer in our faith that tears it down from the inside out. So if we are experiencing those, we have to find ways to express them. Two final encouragements for you about that. So let's say that we've moved through, we've experienced doubt, we can agree that that happens to us from time to time. We see the way that Jesus met Thomas and his doubt. We know that Jesus meets us there. Then after he meets us and we have a personal encounter with him, he says, okay, now choose to believe and no longer doubt. And then we go, okay, I want to do that, but I still need to exercise these things. What do I do? Well, here's the first thing I would encourage you with. The truth has nothing to fear from doubt. The truth has nothing to fear from doubt. There is this attitude in Christian circles, particularly conservative ones, that if we learn too much, we might walk away from our faith. That's stupid. Don't let your children read too many books. They might learn things that make this untrue. Okay, well, then it was never true. And why are you holding your kid back with that? I heard, this is true. I heard multiple times as I was getting educated in church. I went to a conservative Bible college, and then I went to seminary at a conservative place, and I heard multiple times, oh, so-and-so is going to Duke. Oh, Duke's, they're liberal. They're going to, a bunch of atheist professors over there, they're going to teach them the wrong stuff. That person's going to lose their faith. And there was this attitude of you had to stay in the conservative strand. You couldn't go learn more information about your faith from other perspectives because it's going to cause you to lose your faith. As if the truth has something to fear from doubt and new ideas. And what I'm here to tell you is God's truth and the reality of God and the saving work of Christ is not threatened by your doubt and it is not threatened by more truth. And if we can learn so much that this faith becomes not true, then it never was. And we ought to quit encouraging one another to bury our heads in the sand and just accept things sometimes because that's not a healthy faith. We can say, that's a hard question, I don't know what the answer to that is yet, but God showed up in my life in this way, and I am choosing to believe in him until he helps me resolve this. We can do that. And so when I say that truth has nothing to fear from doubt, it's also an encouragement to you to do the work. If you are someone who carries lingering doubt, if you have questions that have never been answered, if they bother you, do the work. Have the conversations. Ask people who have more Christian life experience than you if they've ever had these questions before. I promise you, you will relieve people by being honest with them about what you wonder about. This should be phenomenal discussion in small groups. It would be so good and rich in your small groups if somebody were brave enough to say, yeah, I've always wondered about this. I've never really known how to handle it. Like the ark. Is that real? Come on. That's a great question. Let's talk about that. We should be doing those things. So do the work. Have the conversations. Read the books. Listen to the podcasts. Go out and figure it out. And don't be scared of what's going to happen when you pull the thread of that doubt. Because I am confident because it's happened to me multiple times. There have been times when I have had questions that have lingered for years and I said, I have to explore these and figure them out because if I have to continue to maintain this teaching or this thing, I can no longer be a pastor because I cannot maintain that. And then in doing the work that I thought would lead me away from faith, what I found was a stronger faith because I had a more robust understanding of my faith. So if you have doubts, do the work. Don't be scared of what's there and don't be embarrassed by your questions. If anything, ha, how about this? Be embarrassed by your cowardice, sissy. Ask the question. The other thing that I want to encourage you to do in your doubts is to pray for what Jesus gave Thomas. Pray for what I've experienced multiple times in my life and what Allison experienced in Honduras. Ask Jesus to meet you in your doubt. Say, Jesus, I doubt. I don't understand. I can't quite get to belief or my belief is being challenged or eroded because I don't understand this, Jesus. Ask Jesus to meet you in your doubt. And I'm going to pray that he would meet you even this week and open your eyes and let you see him and go, okay, he just showed up. I'm going to use this to anchor me for a little while while I do the work that I need to do to answer the questions. But we need to remove the stigma from doubt as if it's a bad thing. We need to open it up. We need to see it as healthy. We need to do the work and have the conversations. And in doing so, we can, as a church, have a much more mature, genuine, sturdy, healthy, rich, full faith. Let's pray. Father, thank you for this morning. Thank you again for all the babies and all the families and all the friends and all the folks. Thank you for what you're doing at Grace. Thank you for the way that you're blessing us with these families. We pray earnestly, God, that we would be good stewards of them. Father, if there's anyone in the room who is experiencing doubt, who has questions, I pray that they would be brave enough to ask them. That they would be courageous enough to see them through and to let you meet them there. I pray that you would strengthen our faith through these doubts that we have sometimes, these questions that go unanswered. And God, for those of us that need you to meet us this week, I pray that you would. Would you just show up in profound ways that leave people dumbfounded at the way that you showed up and the reality of who you are? I thank you again for the mothers and pray that they would be celebrated well as we go through our days. In Jesus' name, amen.

Well, good morning. It's good to see everybody. Thanks for being here. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors of grace. Somebody over there is stinky because this side is full. You guys, I don't know what you're avoiding over here, but this is ridiculous. It's good to see you. Thanks for coming in May in the rain. I keep expecting for us to get over. There's always a bump in attendance in the spring, January, February, March. And that usually lasts until Easter. And then you guys go to the beach like for the whole until August. I don't see you again. So I keep expecting that every week and you keep showing up. So I'm just I'm going to threaten you with this. You keep showing up. We're going to two services in the fall. OK, you just have to deal with it. I also just want to praise God sincerely for this. Gibby, our worship pastor, Aaron Gibson, Gibby. We have too many Aarons around here, so I have to give them all nicknames, except for Aaron Buchanan. He's just Aaron, which makes sense. If you know him, that fits. Gibby's sick as a dog this morning. Like legit could barely talk to me when he got in this morning. He was late. He was later than he normally is because he's sick. So he can sneeze in the lobby now. But you wouldn't believe how often we look at each other on a Sunday morning and go, I feel terrible. I don't know if I can preach. I don't know if I can sing. And we just pray for God to give us 30 good minutes. And He always does. He always does. That was fantastic. I was moved to tears. It's so fun and good to be a singing church, especially since I inherited a bunch of frozen Presbyterians eight years ago. We've had to work on that a little bit. If you know, you know. This morning we continue in our series that Haley mentioned called FAQs, where we sourced some questions out to the small groups, solicited some responses, and just said, hey, what is it that you're curious about? What do you want to know? What questions do you have? And so we took kind of the most common ones and we said, let's talk about these on a Sunday. And I'm particularly excited to talk about this topic this morning because I feel it's so important. And it came up a lot in a bunch of different ways. But it's basically questions about understanding the doctrine of salvation. What does it mean to be saved? How do I know I'm going to heaven? Am I going to be saved forever? Can I lose it? Why does the question we're going to focus on at the beginning of our time this morning is why does God accept deathbed confessions, which is an interesting question, but there was a lot of questions around this doctrine of salvation and seeking to understand what it does mean to be saved and having a better understanding around that. And I think it's such an important question because once we get into church world, we kind of stop asking about salvation because I think we feel like we're supposed to know. And so we're embarrassed to ask. But here's what I know is that my understanding of salvation has worked progressively through my life that with each year or decade that passes, I come to understand salvation and what it is a little bit better. And I think that your understanding of salvation should progress as well. Even if you're here this morning and you're not a believer, there's a reason you're in church on a random May in the rain. And it has to be because you're at least curious. You're at least thoughtful about it. And so I would love to have the opportunity to tell you more about what it means to be a Christian. And I want the Christians in the room to understand their salvation more deeply. Because it's my suspicion that everybody here who is a Christian has at some point in their life, and many of you, and I have to, I hope that you'll trust me this morning that I'm not trying to be hard on anybody. I'm not trying to make you feel small for the way that you think. I'm not trying to make you feel uneducated or dumb. I just think this is a necessary phase of our understanding of our salvation that every Christian goes through. And I also know from experience that many Christians spend their entire life kind of misunderstanding the doctrine of salvation and being overly reductive about the incredible miracle that it is and what it actually means. And so this morning, what I'm hoping to do is to give us all a more rich understanding of our salvation. So either we're kind of locked into how we initially understand it, and this will kind of open up our minds and help us understand it better, God and more grateful to him for the miraculous event and process of our salvation. So that's where we're going this morning. That's what I want to do. To get there, I want to start with this question that came up in our emails, which is why does God accept a deathbed confession? This is an interesting question because it belies the motives behind it. And the motives behind that question generate a lot of the other questions that we have around salvation. This question comes most of the time from a sense of jealousy or resentment or entitlement or frustration. This question is most likely, and if you're the one that asked this, please hear me. It makes sense to ask it. I understand why you would. Every Christian has asked it. It's asked so often that Jesus talks about it in the Bible, and we're about to go to exactly where Jesus answers this question. But I want us to understand why we're asking it first. Let's just put it out there and be honest about it, because all of us do it. And again, I don't want anyone to feel bad for asking this question. I just want to understand why it comes up. The main motive in my estimation behind this question, why would God accept a deathbed confession, is essentially this, if we're going to use real language. I've been saved for decades. And I've been denying myself and keeping it between the ditches and trying to follow God's rules for years. And I've lived without the freedom of a pagan. And I'm going to use the word pagan this morning because a pagan is someone who doesn't believe in God. I'm not trying to be dismissive of those people, of non-believers. It's just pagans easier to say than non-believer? So we as Christians, and we know this, especially those of us that were Christians in high school and college, we are jealous of the freedom of the pagan, right? We're jealous of what they get to do and what we can't do. We've spent our life trying to follow the rules, trying to do the right things, trying to live the right way. And now here's this person who spent their life as a free pagan doing whatever they wanted to do, following any rules that they felt like they needed to follow, never committed to God, no fidelity, didn't put in the work that I did. And now at the very end, they're just going to slip in the door and we're going to the same heaven. That's not fair. I know it's hard to hear that out loud, but I can see about half of you grinning at me right now. You'll all have these smirks on your face like, yeah, that's pretty true. You got me. We've all thought that, and it's okay to think that. It makes sense why we would. It makes sense that we would think that. But here's Jesus' answer to that question. Why does he accept deathbed confessions? This is actually a parable. In the Gospel of Matthew, you can turn to chapter 20 if you want to. I'm going to read you verses 13 through 16, but first I need to tell you what's going on. Somebody comes up to Jesus and they ask this question. And so Jesus tells this story. He says there's an owner of a vineyard and he goes out one day where he can get some day laborers. And I've told you before, Israel was a poor country. They were impoverished. And so there was hubs where you would go and you could get men to come and put in a day's labor at whatever business you owned. And this was their livelihood. This was all that. They just hope they got picked that day. That was their livelihood. And so there's these people and the owner goes and he says, hey, I need y'all to come work for me in my vineyard. I'm going to pay you one denarius. I don't know how much that is. I could have done the research on what it was, but that feels like a waste of time. Google it if you care. I'm going to give you one denarius. And they're like, okay, great deal. So they go with him, they get in the Ford Ranger and they go to the vineyard and they start to work, right? And I don't know why Ford Ranger is funny, but it is. And they start to work and they're working all day. About the middle of the day, some other workers come by the field and they go, hey, we're looking for work. Can we help you today? And the owner says, yeah, sure. Come on. You can work for me. And so they start working by the middle of the day. And then about the last hour of the day, some other workers show up and they go, hey, we're looking for work. Can we work for you? The owner says, that's great. Yeah, come on. And they're working for him. So then when the work's done, the owner lines them up and begins to pay them. And he starts with the first group of workers that he hired that morning. Here's your one denarius for your day's labor. Thank you very much. And then he goes to the group that he hired in the middle. And he says, here's your one denarius. Thank you very much. And then he goes to the group that he hired with just an hour to go. And he said, here's your one denarius. Thank you very much. And the guys that have been working all day are ticked. Like, that's not fair. I worked eight hours for my denarius. That dude worked two hours, worked one hour. He had missed the smoke breaks and the lunch break and everything and just came in during the last hour. That's not fair. And the owner responds to them like this in verse 13. But he answered one of them, I am not being unfair to unfair to you friend didn't you agree to work for a denarius take your pay and go I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money or are you envious because I am generous so So the last will be first. And the first will be last. I love that response. They go, hey, that's not fair. We've been working for eight hours. They've been working for one hour. And you're giving us the same pay. And he goes, what do you care? That's basically the answer. It's my money. Do you care what I do with my own possession? Do you care what I do with my own resources? What right is it of yours to tell me what I should do? I chose to be generous to him. Are you envious of my generosity? You agreed to a denarius. I gave you a denarius. They agreed to this. I gave them this. It's my resources to do with what I want. And so to our question of why does God accept a deathbed confession where the implication is, hey, I've been laboring in the vineyard all day, my whole life. I've been working at this for decades. I put in a full eight hours. And I get my salvation. I get my eternity in heaven. I get my utopia. But they just slid in at the last minute. They don't deserve what I deserve. Maybe we can believe in purgatory so they have to suffer a little bit before they get the glory that I get. This is the jealousy that we express. And in that is implied exactly what the workers were frustrated about. Hey, that's not fair. I've put in my time and my effort. I've done my work. And the pay shouldn't be the same. And here's what this does. When we ask that question and we think that way. And here's what I wanted to talk about. When we think like that, we make salvation something that we think of in terms of being in or out. And very often, there's a lot of questions that Christians ask about salvation, and the motivation behind that question is, am I in or am I out? Did I say the prayer the right way? Am I in or am I out? Am I in heaven or am I burning in hell forever? That's what we're asking. How much sinning can I do and still be saved? Can I lose my salvation or does God hold on to me and I can't lose my salvation? That's an in or out question. How do I, if I feel like I lost my salvation, can I get it back? If someone wanders away, were they ever truly saved? All these questions that we ask about salvation are indicative of this thought process of in or out. And that's how we think about our salvation. And this is the place where many of us get stuck for our whole lives. But what I want us to see is that in or out salvation is a small salvation. Thinking of it that way reduces it to something that it should have never been. And if you're there, if you think about it this way, if you've thought about it that way, I don't want you to feel bad because that in or out mentality was probably handed to you by a well-meaning teacher in your church who also adopted that, who never got a more expansive view of salvation. I got saved when I was four. I was four and a half years old. We went to a special service on Sunday night, and the teacher taught us about the doctrine of hell. And I don't know if Aaron Winston's in here, but if I find out that we're teaching our four-year-olds about hell and scaring them into salvation, that's not going to be okay. They taught us about hell. They told us what it was. And they said, do you want to go there? No. No way. That sounds terrible. What's in heaven? Well, you sing a lot. I mean, that's better than hell. Okay. What do I have to do to go to heaven? Well, you have to believe in Jesus. Deal. What do I do to believe in Jesus? Will you repeat this prayer after me? Okay. You say the words and I'll do them too. And I was saved into an in or out understanding of salvation. What four-year-old isn't going to take out a fire insurance policy by threat of hell. Of course I got saved. God in his goodness has progressed my understanding of what salvation is over the decades. But many of us get saved into this kind of faith where for us it's a matter of are we in or are we out? And when we think of it that way, we become the jealous workers in the vineyard that get upset that we've been, and some of you will understand this reference, we've been the good brother in Luke 15, the one that stayed home and worked. And then the prodigal son comes home and God lets him into heaven and throws a party for him too. And we're like, what in the world? I've been doing my part the whole time. Because for us, salvation is, am I in? Am I going to heaven? Or am I not? And many of us get saved. And with this reductive view of what salvation is, we spend the rest of our lives just trying to stay in and trying to understand what's going to keep us there. But I think that there is a much bigger, better view of salvation. And I think it's presented to us in plain language in the greatest chapter in the Bible, Romans chapter 8. I'm going to read to you what Paul writes about what salvation is. But before I do, I want you to understand where we're picking this up. The first eight chapters of Romans, the first seven chapters of Romans, are a lengthy explanation of the doctrine of salvation. It's a lengthy explanation of the doctrine of salvation. Now, also, I want to pause here before I read. I forgot to say this, and I want to make sure that we're clear on this. When I talk about salvation, when I say saved or not, I want to just pause and be very clear that we understand what this means together, okay? The way that we explain salvation at grace, and when I say we, I mean me, because I'm the one that does it. The way that we explain salvation at grace is to say, to be saved, to be a Christian means that we believe Jesus is who he says he is. He says he's the son of God who's come to take away the sins of the world. We believe that. We believe that it means that Jesus did what he said he did. He lived a perfect life. He died a perfect death and he resurrected and rescued us from death and sin and shame. And it means that we believe that he's going to do what he says he's going to do, which in Revelation 19 is to come crashing through the clouds to reclaim us and his creation and restore it back to himself and its original glory. To be a Christian is to believe that Jesus is who he says he is, did what he said he did, and he's going to do what he says he's going to do. And that to become a Christian, all we need to engage in is the fundamental repentance of Christianity, which Peter describes to us in Acts. He's preaching a sermon. Jesus has been crucified. They're hanging out in the upper room for 40 days trying to figure out what to do. The Holy Spirit descends on them. Peter goes out to the crowd and he preaches. And the sermon is, hey, that guy that you killed was the Messiah and he came to save you. And the crowd believes him. And they say, what do we do? We messed up. And Peter says, repent and be baptized. Repent of what? I believe it's the fundamental repentance of salvation, which is to repent of who you thought Jesus was before you came to agree with him about who he says he is. So to be saved, we repent of who we thought Jesus was before we moved into this moment and this process of salvation. And we accept who he says he is from his word. That's what being a Christian is. Now, Romans is the most detailed theological lesson we get in the Bible. And the first seven chapters are written to help us understand what salvation is and what God did in it and what his responsibility is, what our responsibility is. Then in Romans 8, he culminates that seven chapter argument with what I think is the greatest chapter of the Bible and the culmination of the glory of salvation. And he proclaims to us what salvation is. So I want you to hear how Paul talks about it in Romans chapter 8 and see if this can't begin to expand our view of salvation. I've got my old Bible out. This is the ESV. I was reading this passage this morning in the NIV as I was going through the sermon. Sorry, sorry, DeVos. I know I bought you a Bible and now I'm ruining it. And I just didn't, I don't like the way the NIV reads. This is way better. So if you'll indulge me, I'm going to read you from the ESV. This is the soaring doctrine of salvation that Paul gives us. Verse 19. And I'm going to read all the way down through verse 30, so buckle up. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons in God. The creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it. In hopes that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning who have the firstfruits of the Spirit grown inwardly as we wait eagerly for the adoption of sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope for who hopes for what he sees, but if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know what to pray for as we ought. But the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Okay, lock in. You may have faded away, and you're not paying attention to the words anymore, but these three verses are super important. And we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And this is the important part. And those whom he predestined, he also called. And those whom he called, he also justified. And those whom he justified, he also glorified. This is Paul's soaring description of what it means to be saved and what salvation is seeking to do and what God is seeking to work in that salvation. So the first thing that we see is in the very first verse where Paul says, I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. What Paul is saying here is, whatever we had to suffer to be Christians, whatever we had to suffer to be in and to build God's kingdom, whatever that work was for the day in the vineyard, and we've put in our time, whatever suffering we've endured for the sake of the kingdom and for the sake of God is not worth comparing to the glory that will be revealed to us. In other words, there is no possible way you will spend any time at all being saved, being a Christian, being a child of God, and come to regret it. It is impossible that you would be a Christian your whole life and serve God your whole life and get to heaven and be jealous of the people who partied in college. That will not happen. As a matter of fact, what I want us to see, and Paul's talking to a persecuted church, to people who actually suffer. Very few of us, if any, have suffered for our faith. The bar to entry in the American evangelical church is so low that it costs us nothing to come. We have not suffered. Furthermore, the Bible makes it very clear that life with God is the best life possible. Scripture is replete of verses and passages that remind us that being a Christian is the best life possible. And I can go through the Rolodex, John 10.10, that I talk about all the time. The thief comes to steal and to kill and to destroy. But Jesus says, I have come that you might have life and have it to the full, have the most rich, full life possible. We're told in Psalms that at God's right hand are pleasures forevermore, that in his presence, there is a fullness of joy. We're told again in Psalms that one day in his courts is better than thousands elsewhere. We're told that we serve a God in Ephesians that is able to do immeasurably more than we can ask or imagine. We're told in John that from his fullness, we receive grace upon grace. We're told these things over and over again in scripture, that life with God is the best life possible. It's the fullest life possible. And so the reality is that if you're a Christian who's been saved your whole life and someone slips in at the last minute and they get to go to heaven too, you shouldn't feel jealousy. You should feel empathy because you just got to live your whole life with God and they missed out on all that joy. It is to our advantage to be picked up early and work in the vineyard all day. It's the life that we should desire and what we want. We should not feel jealousy to the deathbed conversion. We should feel empathy because they had to go through their whole life without God. And that's what salvation is. It's not in or out. It's with or without. You understand? It's not am I in, am I in, am I going or am I not? It's do I, am I living life with God? Am I abiding in him or am I not? And when someone is not saved, when someone doesn't know the Lord, the great tragedy is that they go through their life without experiencing the joy of the Lord and the joy of heaven. Without experiencing that relationship with him and the richness and fullness of life. We should not be jealous of that. We should be empathetic and continue to invite them in because through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of God. We needn't be jealous of the people who don't put in the work that we do. Because there is joy in that work. So right off the bat, Paul's not talking about in or out. Paul says with or without. And that there is no suffering that will not make it worth the glory that is to be revealed to us. Then, in the rest of this passage, we see this. And this is an important phrase. I want us to rest on it for a little bit. Salvation is a process of restoration and renewal. Salvation is a process of restoration and renewal. This is why this is important. Those words, process is important, restoration, renewal is important, and I want to show you why. But first, we're going to go to that word process. Because I think that many of us think about salvation as this moment in time. I wasn't saved. I prayed the prayer, said the confession, did whatever moment you look to where your belief changed. I wasn't saved. Then I prayed the prayer. I am saved. Done. And that's not true. Salvation is a process. And we know that salvation is a process because of what Paul writes in verse 30 that I said was really important. And those whom he predestined, he also called. And those whom he called, he also justified. And those whom he justified, he also glorified. That's a process. So let's walk through it so we understand it. Those whom he predestined, he also called. Those whom God knew before time were going to accept his invitation to salvation, he also called them to himself. With the urging of the Holy Spirit, he called you to himself. It wasn't your work that found God. It was God calling you to himself through his love and through his kindness and through his goodness. Now, I know that some of you in the room are Calvinist and you care deeply about these words. I am not and I don't. So I'm not going to last a long time there. OK, but those whom he predestined, he also called those whom he called. He also justified that justification is what many of us think of as the moment of our salvation. That's when you were set righteous. You were clothed in the righteousness of Christ. You were set right in the court of God. You were justified before him. You are no longer guilty. You were absolved from your sin because Jesus died, lived a perfect life and died a perfect death. You are now justified before God. And the good news is that in the culmination of this chapter, there's this incredibly powerful verse of the assurance of salvation where Paul writes, So once you are justified, Paul says, I am convinced that nothing can unjustify you. Nothing can unsave you. But the process doesn't stop there. Those whom he predestined, he also called. Those whom he called, he also justified. Those whom he justified, he also glorified. Now Paul speaks as if it's already been done because the work has been done. But we are not yet glorified. We are glorified when we occupy our bodies in heaven. We are glorified when we sit in the presence of God. I love that verse that he sneaks in there in the middle. We do not hope for what we see. We hope for what we do not see. So we wait for it with patience. Meaning, when we get to heaven, we don't need faith and hope anymore because we have God there. So he says that glorification is coming later. So what I want you to understand about your salvation is that it is in process. It's not done. When you are justified, you're secure. You will not be unjustified. But there is another step. And that doesn't happen until eternity. And that's what's in this text. So it's a process, I said, and that's the process. It starts at predestination, at call, at justification, and it's finished at glorification when we're in eternity with God forever. But it's also a process of renewal and restoration. We think about salvation as just our issue. It's just me and God. It's just for me. Jesus died for me, but that's not what we see in the text. In the text, we see that we groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons and the redemption of our bodies, the completion of the salvation process. But so does the world groans in the pains of childbirth waiting for its redemption and restoration as well. So what I want us to understand about salvation is it's bigger than you. It's about restoring all of creation. When God made heaven and earth in Genesis, he made it perfect. He was pleased with it. And I am convinced that it looks completely different than our earth now. And we have mucked up this earth with sin and brokenness. And that one day he will restore all things. He will return and he will make the wrong things right and the sad things untrue. And he will be with us and we will be with our God and the former things will have passed away. And he'll create a new heaven and a new earth. And he will have restored creation back to himself and its original purpose. So when Jesus dies on the cross, he's not just dying for souls. He's dying for everything that he created to restore it back to himself. Because we're told in Romans that all of creation groans for the return of the king. The earth groans for God. And when we think about salvation as being in or being out, we miss virtually everything that's said in Romans 8. We make it so overly reductive as if to think that what we're teaching the kids over there is the greatest understanding that we ever need of this incredible doctrine. And we miss out on what it truly means to be saved. Here's the last thing that I want us to understand about salvation. Being saved allows us to experience glimpses of heaven here and now. If being in heaven is being with God and not being in heaven is being without God, then as people, we are literally experiencing either hell on earth or heaven on earth. Sometimes we get glimpses of what it is when we're in God's presence, at moments with our children, a hike, a sunset, a hug, singing. When we raise our voices, every time we sing and you guys sing loud and Aaron backs off and it's just us, every time that happens, I have to stop singing because I start crying. Because that's what heaven will be like. We will sing together. And so in being believers, we get these glimpses of heaven and what it will be like. And we usher God into our life and and we invite him in, and we allow him in. This is, again, why we should not be envious of the person who gets saved on their deathbed and got, oh, you got this whole life of freedom. No, we're actually taught in Romans that we are slaves to sin. We're slaves to this bondage of corruption, but that by being saved, we are finally free from sin. We live with more freedom than anyone. We should have more joy than anyone. I said this on Easter. Easter is the most joyful day and we are the most joyful people because of the hope that we have in Christ. So I want you to see this morning. I don't know if you can tell I'm fired up about it because I really want you to understand what it means to be saved it's not it's it's too small to understand it as am I going to heaven or am I not am I in or am I out with all gentleness that's a childlike understanding of our faith. And as we grow, and as we move towards glorification through our sanctification, we should allow God to deepen our understanding of what it means to be his child. And we should understand that he's going to restore all of creation to himself, not just us. And we should understand that every day we get to live as Christians is a day that we spend in the presence of God. And at his right hand, there are pleasures forevermore. In his presence, there is fullness of joy. We should be happy and proud and grateful if we're already laboring in the vineyard because of our understanding of what salvation is and how much God loves us through it. So let's progress in that and develop a far more deep, rich, helpful, gratitude-inducing understanding of what it means to be saved. Let's pray. Father, thank you for saving us. Thank you for sending your son. Thank you for sharing him with us. Thank you for watching him suffer for us. Thank you for the promise that you will renew and restore us. Thank you for the promise that you will renew and restore creation. Thank you for who you are. God, if there's anybody here who doesn't know you, I pray that your Holy Spirit would beckon them even now to desire to be with you and begin to experience glimpses of eternity here in this life. For those of us who are saved, God, thank you. Thank you for calling us to work early. Thank you for letting us labor in your vineyard. Thank you for the joy that it brings in what it is. God, we pray all these things in the name of your son, Jesus. Amen.

Well, good morning. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors here. Gibby, I got to hand it to you. It takes a real man to bracket himself with people with better voices than him week after week. I thought Holly and Dave sounded great this morning. Fun fact about David, I'm pretty sure that this is true. If it's not, Katie, please don't publicly correct me. But I'm pretty sure that they met at a bar or a restaurant where David was singing karaoke to Backstreet Boys. And she said, I need to know about that guy. That's true, right? I can't believe that's true. I love that story so much. And I just think that every time he's up here singing, you should know that that voice got him a family. OK, That's pretty great. That's pretty great. This morning, we are starting a new series called Frequently Asked Questions. We thought it would be good and hopefully helpful to take some time here following Easter as we kind of finish up spring, move into the summer to answer questions that Christians often ask, but sometimes are too afraid to ask them like in a small group setting or ask somebody that they know because sometimes there's things that we feel like we should know and we don't and we don't want to admit that we don't. So we just kind of go along with it and pretend like we know things when we really don't know things. And so part of what we want to do is stop and answer those questions so you don't have to ask them out loud. We want you to keep your dignity, and we're just going to help you along the best we can. To get these questions, we did poll our small groups and ask our small groups to respond and give us your questions back. I think we had about 33% participation on that. So the ones who helped, thank you. The ones who didn't, thanks for nothing. I hope you hate this series because you could have fixed it. So then we got all the responses back and we kind of grouped them together, the staff and I did, and put them up on the whiteboard and we saw, okay, where are the redundancies? What are we seeing a lot of interest in? And we tried to talk about the things that came up the most. Now, I will tell you up front, we're not touching on any hard topics. Some of you guys snuck some questions in there about revelation or culture or whatever, like, hey, let's see if Nate will do this one. No, I will not do that one. But if those questions are so burning to you that you really do want to know, I would love to get coffee or lunch with you or let you come to my office and let's chat about it. So if you have a question that is serious to you and you really do want to discuss it, I would love to discuss it. I love discussing things way more than I love actually working. So if you want to take up some time in the afternoon and I call that work and I get to talk, this is fantastic. Okay, so if there's something you want to talk about, I want to talk about it with you if it doesn't get addressed in this series. And what I'll probably do is put out the schedule for the sermons so you guys will know what we're discussing and when we're discussing it. And then you'll know if there's something that we're not going to discuss that you would like to. This morning's question is kind of an amalgamation of a bunch of different questions that all mean, how can I discern God's will for my life? It's questions like, how do I know when I'm hearing the voice of God versus when I'm just dealing with my own thoughts? How can I know God's will and move in the direction that he's encouraging me to move in with confidence, knowing that it's something that he wants me to do? Essentially, how can I discern God's will for my life? How can I be sure that I'm hearing his voice? This question is a question that comes up a lot. Almost every time I do a sermon or I mention being kingdom builders, we need to build God's kingdom. And that's my goal for everybody who calls grace home is that God would slowly but surely mold you into someone who is passionate about building God's kingdom, who understands that that's why you were placed on this earth to build his kingdom, not your own. But I always get, okay, I want to build God's kingdom. How do I do that? What do I do? And the question that they're asking is, how can I get God's discernment on his will for my life? It's this question. So I think that this question, how can I be sure that I know God's will? How can I hear God's voice? I think it kind of comes up really in two big ways in our life. The first time it comes up is when we first become a Christian or we first begin to take our faith seriously. Because when I say that, what I mean is a lot of us were saved, became a Christian as children, but we didn't really click into that Christianity until adulthood or until high school or until college. And so there's some point in our life at which we began to take our faith seriously or we drifted away from a devout faith and now we're clicking back in. We never lost our faith. We just didn't prioritize it the same way. And now we're clicking back in and it occurs to us, man, God has a will and a plan for my life and I need to know what that is. So how do I hear from God? How do I learn from him? How can I walk with confidence in his direction and in obedience? And so one way that we begin to ask this question of how can I hear God's voice is when we first kind of come online as a Christian and start to realize that God does have a direction and a will for us, and we need to tap into that. So how do we hear it? The other time in life that this question becomes really important is when we are faced with a very difficult decision. Or maybe we even find ourselves languishing in a period of indecision in our life, where we just don't know what to do. Do I take the job or do I stay where I'm at? And what I would say there just real quickly is if that job is going to take you away from grace, God does not want you to take that job. As your pastor, I'm just telling you that. I want to be direct. Do I take the job or do I not? Do I fix this relationship or do I not? Do I have that conversation with someone or do I avoid it? Do I interject myself in this situation or do I stay out? How do I move forward with my child is making this decision. I don't want them to make that decision, but they're a grown up or they're close to it. And I don't know how to be their parent right now, what do I do? And so in a room this size with this many people, I'm certain that there are some of you who may or may not be languishing, but you're certainly existing in a season of indecision. Or you may be facing a big decision, and you're just not sure how to discern God's will for that decision. You're not sure how to hear his voice. And hopefully all of us are in places where we do try to listen to God. We do try to discern his will for the big decisions and the small decisions in our life. So the way I thought about this sermon is if you and I were to down for lunch, and you were to give me one of those two scenarios. I'm newer to the faith. I hear people talking about praying and hearing from God. I don't really know how that works. How do I hear from God? That's one question. Or we sit down for lunch, and you go, I'm facing this decision. I don't know what to do. How can I discern God's will for my life? Okay, that's another question. But I would answer both those questions in the same way. And so this morning is really just practical advice. This is a highly practical sermon. And I hope and pray that it's helpful for you if you're in either of those seasons. And if you're not, I hope it's a good reminder and some things that you'll grab onto that I can give you to think about as you face decisions in the future. So if you were to ask me, hey, how do I know God's will for my life? How can I hear his voice in either this situation or in general? I would say, well, I think it's progressive. I think we have to learn. I think there's a system. And I think the Bible teaches us. The Bible gives us enough information, but I don't have to guess at how we hear from God. The Bible shows us how we hear from God. So the first thing I would say is the very first thing to do when you're facing a decision or when you want to start listening to the voice of God, I think one of the very first things we do is know that we hear from the spiritually mature. We hear God's word and God's voice and God's will from the spiritually mature people that we have in our life. I'll show you where we see this. 2 Kings chapter 4. I'm going to be looking at verses 2 through 4. So this woman, this woman comes up to Elisha. Elisha, and you can just leave that up there, Andrea. I'll get to it in just a second. I false started you on that. I'm sorry. Elisha is one of the great prophets in the Old Testament. Elijah and Elisha are some of the great prophets in the Old Testament. They're underrated and underappreciated because they don't have a book named after them, but they're probably the two greatest prophets that we have. They're incredible and their lives are amazing. And we see their stories in 1 and 2 Kings. Elisha is going about his day and a woman, a widow, comes up to him and she says, my husband has died. I have no money. My creditors are after me. I'm afraid I'm going to be homeless and destitute. What should I do? What can I do? And this is how Elisha responds beginning in verse 2. She's afraid she's going to have to give her boys over as Testament. This widow comes to Elisha and she says, I'm poor, my husband's dead, I'm destitute, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to give my sons over to slavery to pay my debts off. I don't know what to do. And Elisha says, okay, I want you to get, what do you have? Do you have a jar of oil? Great. Go around to your neighbors, ask if you can have access to their recycling bins and get all the milk, get all the gallon jugs you could find. This is essentially what's happening. Get all the jars that you can find from your neighbors, bring them to your house, go into a room by yourself, shut the door behind you and begin to pour the oil from your jar into these other jars. And so she does, as she's told, it probably doesn't make any sense to her. She probably thinks this sounds crazy, but she does it. And it's one of the great miracles of the old Testament that no matter how much she poured, there was still oil in her jar. And all the jars were filled. And then she says, I've done it. I filled all the jars I could find. He says, okay, go and sell that oil and take a chunk of it and pay off your debts. And there should be enough remaining for you to live well for a while until you can figure something else out. And so she was taken care of, but she was taken care of by going to a spiritually mature person and saying, what should I do? And then having the courage to do what she was told. And what you're going to see is that this question isn't as much about how do I know God's will for my life? This sermon and this question is really about, do you have the courage to walk in obedience when it's clear? Because a lot of times it is clear to us what we need to do. We just keep praying, hoping for a different answer because we don't want to do the thing. She did the thing. It was crazy, but she did it. And so similarly in our lives, if we want to hear from God, if we want to know what to do in a difficult decision, we should go to the spiritually mature people in our life. I have a friend named Tyler. And Tyler is, he's the most trusted recommender I have in my life. I will do, and he does research about everything. Two or three years ago, we moved into our new house. I was in an airport, and I had been doing research on security systems. Jen said she wanted an alarm on the house, so I was trying to figure out the best way to do this and how to get this accomplished. Apparently, this is not much of a security system for us, so we need a little bit extra. And I'm in an airport. I can't remember which airport I'm in, and I'm not sure what to do, and I think, I know, I'll call Tyler. I'm certain that Tyler has done research on this. So I called him, and 45 minutes later, we are still talking about security systems from all the research that he's done. He was delighted to have the conversation. I kept saying, dude, I'm so sorry I'm taking up your time on this. I know this is silly. He's like, no, no, no, I love this. Anyways, so the ring system, and he's getting back into it. Tyler, if he tells me, hey, dude, you need to read this book. Hey, man, you need to listen to this podcast. Hey, I watched this show, and it was great. I always say, don't say another word. I don't want to know what it's about. I don't need to know what it's about. I will consume it tomorrow. He is the number one recommender in my life. If Tyler says it about silly, frivolous stuff, there's no one that knows more about less important things than Tyler. So I just go with whatever he says. We need spiritual Tylers in our lives. When we face indecision, we go to them. They've done the work. They've done the research. They're in the word. They're a man or a woman of prayer. They know how to hear from God. They've matured past us. We go trust their voice when we can't trust our own. We go to spiritually mature people and we ask them what they think, trusting their ability to hear from God. If you feel like I have no idea how to hear from God, the first thing you do, go talk to spiritually mature people who know God's word and who are prayed up. Before I took this job, when it was offered to me, before I agreed to come, I went to six different senior pastors who are far more experienced than me. And I put everything in front of them. And I said, does this seem wise? Do you think this is a good idea? I went to spiritually mature people who know better than me. As a spiritually mature Christian trying to discern God's word, I went to people who had already moved beyond me and asked them what they thought. And I sought their counsel. Proverbs has a lot to say about seeking wise counsel. So if we want to hear from God, we go to wise people. The other place we go, and the only reason I didn't put this one first is because sometimes you don't know where to go in God's word. And so sometimes we need a spiritually mature person to direct us there. But the other place we go to hear from God is to know that we hear from God's word. What do we hear from God? We hear from his word. Look at Luke chapter five, verses four through six. Simon Peter had been out fishing all night and he comes back and Jesus sends him back to throw out the nets. In verse 4, when he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, put out into deep water and let down the nets for a catch. Simon answered, Master, we've worked hard all night and haven't caught anything, but because you say so, I will let down the nets. When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break. A lot of us know this story. A lot of us know this story. We've seen this before. But what I want you to see is Peter is responding to the very words of God, the words of the Savior. He gets done with the night of fishing and Jesus says, you didn't catch anything, go back out, cast in deep water. Which, by the way, deep water's further away, so it's no small thing that he's asking after a full night of fishing. And Peter says, we just did that, but since you told me to, I will. And he has the courage and the fidelity to obey. Which, again, is what this question is really about. Once you have discerned God's voice, do you have the courage to walk in accordance with it? They go out, they cast the nets, just like Jesus told them to, and they caught more than they could ever imagine catching before. The nets were breaking from pulling in the fish. And so the example here is when God speaks to us, we should listen. And we have the benefit of this whole Bible. And we believe about this Bible that it is inspired and it is authoritative and that these words are God's words. And so if we can find it in the Bible, God is speaking to us. And there are some things that we're trying to discern God's will on. And there are very clear passages on that thing. I've had people come to me before and say, should I forgive so-and-so? This happened in my past. I can't forgive them. Do you think God wants me to forgive them? Well, there's a passage for that. That's easy. You go to where Peter asked Jesus that very question, where Peter says, hey, if someone sins against me, I know I should forgive them. But if they do the same sin, how many more times should I forgive them for the same thing? And Peter says, should I do it up to seven times? Thinking this is a generous offer. And Jesus says, I tell you the truth, you should forgive them 70 times seven times. Which means as many times as they commit the offense, you should forgive them. So if you come to me and you go, is it the Lord's will for me to forgive this person? And a lot of times that question is not asked lightly. That question is not asked lightly. Sometimes it's stupid. Sometimes it's, you know, my boyfriend and my girlfriend broke up with me and I can't forgive them. Okay, we'll be a grownup. But other times it's really, really serious stuff. It's stuff from childhood. It's the worst kinds of betrayal and I can't find it in my heart to forgive. Do you think God wants me to forgive? Yeah, it's in the Bible. It's right there. Do you think God wants me to give, even if it's tight, even if finances are difficult? Does God want me to be a generous person and be a giver? Yeah, I think he does. If I have a lot, if I have an overabundance, and 10% is a serious chunk of money, does God still want me to give 10% even though I'm giving generously compared to all the people around me? Yeah, I think he does. I think that's the baseline in Scripture. I think that's pretty clear. So there's some things that we go back and forth about, what's God's will here, when really it's answered in Scripture. And sometimes a spiritually mature person can point us to the right passage. Sometimes we can point ourselves to the right passage. I'll tell you what's really great in this instance. This is my number one sermon prep tool. It's www.google.com. What does the Bible say about forgiveness? What does the Bible say about fathers and mothers? What does the Bible say about child rearing? Now, I know that that sounds ridiculous, and you have to kind of sort through some stuff sometimes to get something of worth, but very often you'll find that someone has made a list of all the verses that address that topic. And it allows you easily just to see, oh, this is what the Bible says about these things. And when we're trying to discern God's will for our life or what we should do in a certain situation, if we're lucky enough to find a passage that addresses it directly, we can be done wondering what God wants us to do. We just again again, have to have the courage to actually do it. Now, sometimes, sometimes we've grown in our maturity. We believe we've heard from God before. We've been obedient to scripture and we allow it to speak to us and into situations in our life, but we might be facing a decision that isn't specifically covered in the Bible. Do I take that job? Do I address that situation? Do I support them in this or not? Do I invest in my friend's company in this way? What non-profit should I serve in? I want to give, and I want to give generously, but there's so many options. What's the right one? How do I know God's will for that? So there's some questions that are not easily laid out in scripture. And for those, we need to learn to listen to God. And one thing we can do to learn to listen to God is sometimes you test God. Sometimes you test him to see. And this is a biblical thing, because that sounds a little out there, put God to the test, but there's a way in which you can do it, and it's appropriate. There's that famous story in Judges with Gideon. Gideon is a judge that God has raised up to overthrow the Midianite oppressors of his Hebrew people. And Gideon thinks that God wants him to go to battle. He's pretty sure that he's got his army assembled and God wants him to go to battle, but he just wants to be extra sure. So he says, okay, God, I think that this is what you want me to do, but just to be sure, I'm going to go to bed and I'm going to leave a fleece. I'm going to leave a fleece, a rug out in front of my tent. And if I wake up in the morning and that fleece is wet with dew and the ground around it is dry, I will take that as a signal from you that this is what I need to do. So he goes to sleep. He wakes up the next morning. Sure enough, fleece is wet. We know this. The ground is dry. And he says, okay, God, I'm going to go do the thing. That's not what he says because Gideon is like us. Gideon actually says this when he finds the fleece. Look at this verse in Judges 6, verse 39. Then Gideon said to God, I love this part, do not be angry with me. Please don't be mad. Just let me make just one more request. Allow me one more test with the fleece, but this time make the fleece dry and let the ground be covered with dew. So he's like, all right, that was a cool trick that you did with the fleece last night. But just to be sure, can you do the opposite? Can we flip it? Are you that fancy? So he goes to bed. He wakes up the next day. The ground around the fleece is soaked in dew. The fleece is dry. And Gideon knows what he needs to do. He assembles the men and he goes to war. And he goes to war knowing that he has the assurance of God to do this thing. And the wonderful part about putting God to the test is when you put him to the test for very difficult things, we don't have to lead people into war, most of us. But sometimes we have to move our families to different states. Sometimes we have to eat a big thing of humble pie. Sometimes we have to take a new job that we don't know about. Sometimes we have to step off the cliff hoping that God will catch us. And when those times come, it is so helpful to put God to the test and be able to go back to a clear signal that he gave us, yes, this is what I want you to do, move forward. There's been so many times in the life of grace and in my tenure as a senior pastor where I've had to put God to the test and say, if you want this to happen, you're going to be the one that has to do it because I don't see a way forward. And then he's made a path forward. Sometimes we can put God to the test like this. Now, I'm not recommending this, but this is a famous story in my family. And every time I hear this story, I think it's false. I think one of my great aunts or uncles made it up, okay? But my mom swears that it's true. And if you can't trust your mom, who can you trust? I have a great aunt. I forget her name. Maybe Sarah. And my whole family on my mom's side is from the South. My pop all grew up in South Georgia, literally on a dirt floor. My mom all grew up in Red Stick, Baton Rouge, and she's Cajun. So I've got a real good combination of low quality individuals in my ancestry. And my great aunt Sarah was a widow and lived alone. And her house was in disrepair. Her roof looked terrible and I believe was leaking in some places. And she was a woman of faith. She was a devout woman of faith and she went to church every Sunday. And the story goes that one day she got fed up with her roof leaking in the way that it looked. And she marched out in her front yard and she turned and faced her house and she said, Father, everybody around here knows that I'm your daughter. And if this is how you want to see them taking care of your daughter, then that's your business. But I should think that you would want better for me. And then she walks back in the house. Again, I wouldn't try it. Walks back in the house. That was her prayer. It was her test. The next day, no kidding around, she gets a knock at the door. Two dudes from a roofing company. We're new in town. We can see that you need a new roof. We'd love to replace it for free if you'll allow us to use you as a model home and put a sign in your yard. And she says, thank you, Father. Yeah, that'll be fine. She gets a new roof. God wanted her to have that roof, no doubt about it. Sometimes we put them to the test. Here's something that I do sometimes. Sometimes I'll be concerned for a person, or I'll have something that I think I want to say to somebody that's hard. Maybe I see a pattern, and I just want them to know that I see it it and I want them to know that I want to encourage them through it. Or maybe I can just see that they're having a hard time and I want to give them a space to talk about that hard time. But I'm not sure if I need to interject myself. I'm not sure if they want that. You know those prompts that you feel of, I think I should probably talk to that person. I think I need to call them. Or maybe you're in a social gathering and you see somebody and you're like, oh yeah, I wanted to talk to them about this, but I don't know if it's appropriate. I don't know if I should. The prayer that I'll pray when I feel those things is, Father, if you want me to talk to that person, will you make that possible? If I'm in a social gathering and there's somebody that I know I need to talk to, but I can't just walk up to a circle of people and start talking to them about that thing. I will pray, God, if you really do want me to say that to them, will you put me alone with them and give me a window to do that? And then I just know, and I'm sensitive to, if I'm just moving about whatever it might be, a grace's big night out, and this person ends up alone with me. Now, none of you are going to talk to me at Grace's Big Night Out. I'm not talking to him. He might have prayed about this. I'm not going over there. But if there's a door that God opens to that conversation and it becomes appropriate, I have to have the courage to walk through it. Or I'm going to lunch with somebody, and I know that there's something I want to say to them, but I'm not sure if I should, I'll pray, God, if I'm supposed to say what I think you want me to say, will you have them bring it up so that I can walk in confidence into that conversation, knowing that I'm doing the right thing? And see, for me, that's an exercise in discipline, Because I don't know how many of you are like me in that you're messed up and you love confrontation. I love it. I want to say the thing. Like, I don't want to be mean about it. I just want to put my face in the wood chipper and have the conversation. Let's just do it. It's best for everybody. I'm chomping at the bit to have those conversations. So what I'm asking for is like, God, you tell me when I'm let off the leash and I'll go. That's what I'm asking for. Others of you are just, you don't even need a leash. You don't need an electric fence. You're just going to stay in your yard. You're not going, you are so scared of those conversations. But let me tell you something. If God's placed something on your heart that he might want you to say to somebody, and then he opens the door for you to do that, have the courage and the obedience to step through it. Because I can tell you from experience, God uses those conversations. When you're having a holy conversation, a holy confrontation, a holy period of encouragement, it refreshes refreshes you and it refreshes them and it builds both of your faiths and It builds your ability to hear from God God I think you want me to say this then he opens the door then you walk through it and you say it and now that you that exists in your life as a marker of a time that you heard God's voice. And you're starting to learn it. And you're starting to walk in obedience. And he's able to use you as more of a tool as you walk through life. And it builds their faith. Because you can say to them, you know, I just have been thinking about you and praying about you. And this is on my heart and so I just feel like I want to say it. I've never said that and been met with apathy. No one's ever said that to me and I've gone, yeah, I didn't really need to hear that. I think you missed it on that one. It's always right. It's always good. So whether it's a conversation or a situation, it's okay to put God to the test and say, God, if this is truly what you want me to do, can you give me this kind of sign? Can you do this thing? Can you bring this person into my life? Will you have them, if you, I've even done it before too. I've said, God, if you want me to talk to that person about that thing, I'm going to need you to have them call me today. And then an hour later, my phone will ring and I'll see their name and my heart will sink because it's like, shoot, I have to do it. I thought that was, I thought I was going to sneak that one by him. So one thing we can do is we can put God to the test. And as we do that, eventually you learn to hear God on your own. So as we talk progressively about how can we hear from God, eventually we talk to spiritually mature people who know how to hear from God. Then we consult Scripture, God's Word. Then we start putting God to the test to learn when we are and when we are not hearing God's voice. And then eventually we learn to hear God on our own. John 14, 27 says this, or 10, 27, sorry, it's wrong in your notes. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. We are taught, Jesus says that his sheep know his voice, right? That when the sheep are out there, all the shepherds in the world can be yelling, but when our shepherd yells, we know and we look. I've always thought about this as God's dad whistle. Every dad worth his salt has a whistle. Charlie Healy, if you don't have one, you've got to develop one. I don't want to see you shaking your head. You go home and you work on it. Or you're underserving Henry. Every dad worth his salt has a whistle. You have to. You have to. We were on the subway in Washington, D.C. this week. And Jen and the kids were in a seat. And I was standing in the door because I had the stroller that I had to hold up. And I wanted Lily to see something. So I just gave her a little. And it cut through just that loud. but it cut through everything. She's reading a book. She looks up right at me. She knew it was me. And I was like, yes, I'm a good dad. That's all you need. You don't need to know. I didn't snap at her or be too hard on her at any point in the trip. You don't even need to know that. I'm a good dad because she responded to that whistle. I can remember being in a park when I was a kid at the ballpark or something like that running around and I would hear my dad's whistle and I knew, I knew, I know Rayvon has a whistle. I knew that I had about 10 seconds to get my butt to the car or it was going to get tore up. Like I knew that, right? Every dad worth his salt has a whistle. We hear it and we know. When we've been walking with God long enough, we know his voice. We don't have to put him to the test anymore. We just say, yes, Lord, okay, open the door and I will walk through it. Do you want me to take this job? Do you want me to do this thing? Do you want me to fix this relationship? When we've been walking with him long enough, we know his voice. It's just, I don't think it's describable. When people say, how do you know you hear from God? When you've put them to the test enough times and you've learned to recognize that impulse in your life and in your heart, you learn when it's the Holy Spirit and when it's not. But that's just a repetition thing. It's just a time thing. We've spoken to spiritually mature people. We've consulted his word. We've we've put him to the test and over time we learn to identify his voice finally as we progress through it you expect to hear from God now this one's wild to me I've never known anyone that was like this but it's in the Bible so it's's true. 2 Kings 4.27. I'm going to read it to you. This will seem unremarkable, but you'll see where I'm going. 2 Kings 4.27. So the widow is coming back. Her son has died. And when she reached the man of God at the mountain, she took hold of his feet. Gehazi came over to push her away, but the man of God said, leave her alone. She is in bitter distress, but the Lord has hidden it from me and has not told me why. So he's going through his day. The widow that he helped with the oil earlier in the chapter, her son dies, and she comes to Elisha in distress. And she grabs his feet, and Gehazi was his assistant, his right-hand man, and he goes to push her away. Like, that's not appropriate. Don't do that. And Elisha holds him off and says, don't do that. She's in bitter distress. And this is a phrase I will, it will never not impact me when I see it. And when I think about it, the Lord has hid it from me and I'm not sure why. Do you understand that Elisha walked so closely with the Lord and heard his voice so regularly that he went through his day and listening and expecting to hear things from God. He is surprised that God did not tell him about the death of this boy that he is close to and that he loves. He's surprised that God didn't. Can you imagine walking through your day and going, oh, so-and-so just got diagnosed with cancer, I'm going to call him. That just occurring to you because you can hear God's voice that clearly, but that's who Elisha was and that's who we should strive to be. I know that that feels like a very long way off for most, if not all of us, but I believe it's possible based on the example of Elisha to listen to God so intently and so regularly and to know his voice so well that he begins to tell us things that we're not even asking about. And the last thing I would say about hearing God's voice and how do we discern it is something that I say very regularly. God often speaks in stereo. God often speaks in stereo. If you're a new Christian, you want to know, or you're a newly engaged Christian, you want to know how to hear God's voice and discern his will. Know that he speaks in stereo. If you have multiple mature friends saying the same thing, that's stereo. If you have a friend saying something and you're reading scripture and you're not even seeking out an answer for this, but a verse jumps off the page in a new way that's in some way directly applies to your situation, we call that, my buddy Harris calls that a God wink. Just God winking at you going, yeah, I got you. I'm taking care of you. That's my voice. You can trust it. Or you're having a conversation and it comes up and this person says a thing and you're like, you didn't even know I was dealing with that, but that's exactly what I'm dealing with right now. This must be a God thing. Yeah, it must be. Or you come to church and I'm preaching about something and it happens to be exactly what you're dealing with that week, which happens all the time. People come up to me afterwards and go, you have no idea, but either my wife called you and told you to preach that to me, or the Holy Spirit is speaking to you because that's exactly what I needed. God often speaks in stereo. And if you find yourself in a season of indecision, if you find yourself not knowing what God's will is, but you've heard the same thing from multiple sources, it might not be that you don't know what to do. It might just be that you don't have the courage to do it yet. Because like I said, this sermon is not really about learning to discern the voice of God. It's about challenging ourselves to walk in confidence once we've heard it. These are the ways that we hear it. And if God is speaking to you in stereo, then you already know what you should be doing. So I'm going to pray for us. I'm going to pray for those of you who are in seasons of indecision that God will bring some clarity, that he will speak to you in stereo and multiple trusted sources. And I'm going to pray that for those of you who want to learn the voice of God will have opportunities even this week to begin to hear him and put him to the test and walk in faith. Let's pray. Father, thank you for this morning. Thank you for speaking to us. Thank you for being a God who hears, but also a God who speaks. God, give us ears to hear you. Give us hearts to obey you. Help us walk in confidence once we've heard from you. God, if there is someone here, as a matter of fact, I know there are people here who find themselves in these seasons of indecision. Would you give them clarity for those choices? Would you give them confidence to walk according to your will? And would you make your will abundantly clear to them? Father, for those of us who are learning to hear your voice, would you give us a chance even this week to hear it? Would you give us a chance to put you to the test so that we might walk in faith and so learn to hear your voice more and more? Would we be like your sheep who know your voice and respond to it? And one day, maybe, God, we can be like Elisha and even have the boldness to expect to hear from you. We pray these things in your son's name. Amen.