Sermons tagged with Prayer

Well, good morning, everybody. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors here. Thank you so much for joining us. If you're watching online, thank you for doing so. If you're catching up later, that's fantastic. Thank you for doing that. If I seem just a little bit distracted this morning in the transport of my paper, it got a crease in it. And when I was a teacher, if you handed in a piece of paper to me that had a crease in it, I handed it back to you and made you rewrite it because it doesn't stack well and I don't like it. So now every time I look at it, I'm like, this sucks. So, you know, forgive me that. This morning we are in some part of our series in the life of Moses, and we've arrived at a very famous story where Moses parts the Red Sea. And this is a story that's so famous that even if you're not a church person, you have become at some point aware of it. And as I was prepping for this sermon, I was reminded, when I was a kid, I really enjoyed Farside. And there's this one Farside cartoon. Thank you, Tom, for your support. Everyone else, you're mean. And you have no sense of humor because Farside is great. And I remember this particular cartoon of Moses as a kid. And I know it says Moses as a kid at the bottom. I know you can't see that very well, but that's him parting his glass of milk at breakfast just for practice, right? So we know this story. We know what it is. We've heard it before. I think the question for us in 2025 in the United States is, does this story about how God rescued his children in ancient Egypt apply to us today? And are there things that we can pull from it that we can apply to our lives? Or is it just a story about what God did? And we should marvel at that. And honestly, sometimes that should be the answer. We should just read a story and think about it and consume it and allow ourselves to just marvel at who our God is in that story. But as I looked at it, I did think, because I put this in the series plan because you can't tell the story of Moses and not tell the story of the parting of the Red Sea. So I knew that we needed to do it. But it's very rare that when I put a sermon on the calendar or in the series that I don't know kind of where I want to go with it. But for this one, I had to sit down with the text and just read it and go, what do we talk about here, God? What do we preach? What do we do? How do we direct? And as I read it, something became clear to me. And so I want to share that with you this morning. But to do that, what I'd like to do is just dive right into the story. So this story is found in Exodus chapter 14. I'm going to read the first four verses to kind of set it up. And then we're going to talk about it a little bit. So Exodus chapter 14 verses 1 through 4. So the Israelites did this. These instructions are essentially what I'd like you to do. Moses, take your people that are fleeing from the most powerful nation on the planet and move them back and forth across the desert in a nonsensical way. And then I would like for the conclusion of that meandering journey to be at the shore of the Red Sea so that Pharaoh will look at you and go, they don't know what they're doing. They're lost in the desert. Let's go get them. And when he decides to do that, you're going to be pinned against the sea. And then I'm going to do something to make my name great. And we're going to come back to that later. But what strikes me is these instructions are directed by God from God. They're very intentional. And he has a plan. And they make no sense. Right? Can you imagine being one of the tribal elders that Moses comes back to? And he's like, listen, I heard from God. Here's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to go a few miles that way, and then a few miles that way, and then we're supposed to encamp a few miles that way, pinned against the coast of the Red Sea. And when we do that, Pharaoh's army is going to pursue us. If you were an elder in that situation, if you were an advisor in that situation, you would say, I think, I know I would, hey Moses, that doesn't make a lot of sense, man. Maybe that's not the best plan. Like, okay, meander around, let's do this a little bit, but is there a place to stop where we've got an escape route? Is there a place to stop where we can bail out, there's an exit hatch? Maybe the best thing to do, and I know that this is a wild idea, Moses, but maybe the best thing to do is just continue to move north away from Egypt and not meander in the desert and let Pharaoh watch us. Maybe that's the best idea. Moses, this doesn't make any sense. Isn't that the counsel that you would offer? As that came down the pipe, I know from talking with some of you in Bible study and socially, that sometimes there's decisions that are made three levels above you, and when they get to you, you're like, that is dumb. That doesn't make any sense. Why are we doing this? Wouldn't you feel that way if you were one of the Hebrew people and you're told we're going to be meandering here and here and here and then we're going to pin ourselves against the sea and we're going to let Pharaoh see us? That sounds like a terrible plan. But it's a God-directed plan. And so one of the first things that jumps out to me in this story is sometimes God tells us to do things that don't make sense. There are times in life when God will direct us to do things that don't make any sense. And this is a theme that's been coming up lately in our sermons and in what we've been talking about as a church. And I can't help but think that the Holy Spirit is pressing on some of us to do something that might not make sense on its face. That the Holy Spirit is pressing us to make a decision and to take a step that on its face doesn't make sense. On its face, if you were to tell the advisors and the people around you what you wanted to do, they would go, I'm not sure that's the wisest course of action. Maybe it's to quit your job and to pursue a different field. Maybe it's to stay in your job when all you want is to get out of your job. Maybe it's to end a relationship that's tenuous and hurtful, but you're scared to do it because you need it. Maybe it's an impetus to stay in a relationship that you think has a dead end and isn't going anywhere. But you just feel this press from God to stay in it. Maybe it's to quit something or to start something. But I do know that from time to time, the Lord will press on our hearts through the Holy Spirit for us to do things that might not make sense. I remember years ago in 2016 when I was looking for a job and becoming a senior pastor, moving on from being a staff pastor at my old church, Greystone, that my pastor preached a sermon on Abraham. And he pointed out that God spoke to Abraham when he lived in Ur in the Sumerian dynasty in the Middle East, probably modern day Iran. And he told him where Iraq, and he said, I want you, he woke him up and he said, I want you to get your things together, get your house together, get your wife, get your servants, get all your possessions. I want you to go to a place where I will show you. Not a specific place. Abraham didn't get to watch a YouTube video about the land of milk and honey to decide if he wanted to go there on vacation. He just had to go into the unknown. Just go that way and I'll let you know when you get there. And his point was sometimes God asks us to do things that don't make sense. And I was very convicted in that sermon because I was listening to that sermon and I'm thinking, we need to sell our house. We need to sell our house. I don't have a job yet. I don't know where we're moving. It doesn't make a lot of sense because we don't have a good place to go, but I know that we need to sell our house. And so I went home and I thought about it and I prayed about it. And that afternoon I went to Jen and I was like, hey, you're not going to like this. And I know that we don't have a place to move, but I think we need to sell our house. And she said, me too. What? She said, that's all I was thinking the whole sermon. We need to sell our house. And so we did. And for the next seven months, we lived with her parents and my parents. And then when I got hired by Grace, things were a little bit rushed. And I had two weeks from when I had my last Sunday at Greystone to when I preached my first Sunday at Grace. Two weeks. That is not enough time to sell a house. That is not enough time to get my affairs in order. But God pressed on us to do something that made no sense. And so we just felt like we were supposed to walk towards the sea. And we did. I have some good friends from that season of life, Heath and Ashley. And the sea that they walked towards was a lot scarier than ours. Heath was a staff pastor with me at Greystone. And I remember how he was and is a very dear friend of mine. If for no other reason than in 2013, he took me to the Masters. And I'll be forever grateful for that. I'll pretend to like him in hopes of further Masters visits after that. But I remember having a conversation with Heath when we were talking about spiritual gifts. And he said, what do you think my spiritual gifts are? And I said, honestly, I don't know. Maybe all of them. You're good at everything you do. He's so humble. He's so sweet. You would like him way more than you like me. Heath is great. And everything that he did just seemed to flourish. And by the time that both of us had matured in staff, he was a campus pastor in a city called Monroe, which was, you know, 35 minutes down the road from our main campus. And it was this quaint little southern town, a little bit like Wake Forest, but just better because Wake Forest stinks a little bit. And he bought this house downtown that was built in like the 1800s. And his wife, Ashley, is very eclectic and wonderful. And we love her. And we're actually going to see them in a few weeks when we go down to Florida. And it was just this perfect house for them. And they had two little girls. And it was just this really great thing. And they fixed up the house. And the house had appreciated in value really greatly. And they had set up this very nice life for themselves. And he's the campus pastor at a campus that's flourishing. And they just felt this press from the Holy Spirit, this direction like we see from God in verses one through four. Hey, I think I want you to go to seminary. And he felt this conviction that he needed to go to seminary. He had never been. He graduated from UGA with a degree in business and then got involved in church world and had never been to seminary. And so he felt like he needed to go. And he shared it with Ashley. And Ashley is one of these people. She was either convicted by the Holy Spirit or just so wild and free in her spirit that she was just like, yeah, let's do that. She's very adventurous. So he told Ashley, and they said, yeah, let's go to seminary. And so they sold everything they had, and they moved to Pasadena, California to go to Fuller Theological Seminary. And they lived in a student apartment. And if you've been to college and you've seen student apartments, those are a little bit less good than your own house in a small city, right? It was small, it was constricted, it was confined. Their little girls are meeting new people, going to a new school, a new environment. They really felt like God asked them, give up your comfortable life, move across the country, and I'll show you what I want you to do there. And so that's what they did. And when Heath told me this was his plan, I said, I don't think you need to do that. You're very successful in ministry. You're very good at what you do. But if this is what God's convicting you to do, then I think you should go. But it didn't make any sense to me. And I got off the phone with Heath and I looked at Jen and I was like, this doesn't make any sense. And she was like, that's weird. And I was like, I know. But they felt convicted and so they did and so they walked towards the sea. Sometimes in life, God asks us to do things that don't make any sense. But let me show you what happens when we follow through in obedience. First, we tend to come to a point of conflict. Exodus chapter 14, verses 10 and 11. As Pharaoh approached, the Israelites looked up and there were the Egyptians marching after them. They were terrified and cried out to the Lord. They said to Moses, was it because there was no graves in Egypt that you brought us to the desert to die? What have you done to us by bringing us out of Egypt? Which I have to admit, until I dove into this story and was reading through to figure out what to preach and how to preach, I was unaware. This verse had never stuck out to me before, but it's one of the great sarcastic lines in the Bible. What have you done to us? Are there not enough graves in Egypt that you would bring us here to die? And then if you continue to read and you follow the discourse, some of them say, didn't we tell you in Egypt that we didn't want to do this? Didn't we tell you that we thought this was a bad idea? We were oppressed there, but we were alive. And now we're about to be mowed down by the army of Egypt. Because now what's happening when they say this, they're pinned against the Red Sea. They're shoreline and shoreline and nowhere to go. And in the distance is the armies of Pharaoh. And one detail that I think is interesting, because I'm silly, I just have to point this out. It says in the text that Pharaoh chose 600 of his best chariot men to go and to pursue the Israelites, which is great. But how do you determine the top 600 of anything? Like who was 601? You know? And was that guy like, I mean, come on, I'm at least 585. If not 590, this is bull. 601 has to be sour about it, right? It just seems like a really specific number. Anyways, I'm sorry. So they're pursuing the Israelites. And the Israelites say, why are we here? We told you this didn't make sense. They're raining down on us. We would have been better off if we did the other thing. This was a stupid decision. And so they come to this point of desperation where now they've done what they were supposed to do. And the only thing that can rescue them from their peril is an act of God. It's this point of desperation. And it reminds us that the reality is sometimes God asks us to do something, and we take that step of faith, and it opens up and it works out wonderfully. But most of the time, God asks us to do something, and we take a step of faith, and there is a process. There are things to wait on. We don't understand it fully. God told David, you're going to be the king of Israel, and then he waited 20 years. God called Moses to be the leader, and then he waited 40 years. God called Paul to be his witness to the Gentiles, and then he waited seven years. God called Peter, and Peter was a moron for three years, and then got it together and ministered well. Sometimes when we take a step of obedience, it works out right away, but most of the time time it's a process. And within that process, we will often reach a point of peril and desperation where we go, God, if you don't act, I don't know what to do. And it will cause us to question everything about the decision that we made. We will agree with the Egyptians. I was better off in the previous situation. I was better off with the previous resolution, with the previous decision, with the previous direction of guidance. I was better off then than I am now. Why did I do this? I regret quitting the job. That was a bad decision. I wish I could have it back. I regret starting this company. It was a bad decision. I wish I could have it back. I regret, I regret ending that relationship. I regret staying in this relationship. This is so hard. I regret moving to this school or to this place or to, or to go to this thing or to start this or to stop that. I regret it. It was wrong. And I wish I could have that previous life back. I wish I had a redo, God, because maybe I got it wrong. But when we follow God towards the sea, there is almost an inevitable moment where we will reach a point of desperation like the Israelites did and say, maybe I would have been better off if I had never done this. But it's at that point of tension that we reach the denouement, the climax of the story, the resolution of the event. In verses 26 through 28. It's at this point that chariotman 601 was 601 was like, thank goodness for that. God had a plan. He told Moses, raise your arms, close the sea. And he defeated this army of Egypt. And though I can't peer into the mind of God, I cannot know the mind of God. It makes sense to me that what God may have known, I'll just proffer this to you. You accept it or don't based on what you think. But I think it's possible that what God may have known is that Pharaoh is not going to just let you go. If you just scurry north, at some point or another, he will decide that he wants you back. And his army of trained soldiers and men on chariots and horses is faster than your entire three and four generations of families shuffling through the desert. It's faster than you. And if he wants to come get you, he will get you. And he will at some point, whether it's on the banks of the Red Sea, in the desert congruent to the Red Sea, or on the shores of the Jordan River, or even if he has to come back to Israel and reconquer you and bring you down. He will get you. I think this may be something that God knew. And so he knew that the Egyptian army needed to be conquered. And he knew that the Israelites didn't have the tools and the armies to do it. So he knew that he was going to need to step in. So what did he do? He told them, I want you to make yourself bait for Pharaoh. And I want you to put yourself in a completely vulnerable situation so that he will attack you. And when he does, look back at verse 4. Why did he do this? But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord. Sometimes God uses the nonsensical to spread his name. Sometimes he directs us towards nonsense, towards things that don't make sense, towards things that our friends would not advise us towards except for the will of God. And he uses it to spread his name. I remember having a conversation with Heath. They moved out to Pasadena. They lived in this small apartment. They were struggling, but they were good. They took all the equity that they gained from their home in Monroe, and they used it to live for those two years that he needed to do seminary to complete his degree and then towards the end of his seminary education I spoke with him and I was like what do you what are you gonna do because he had been a staff pastor and he didn't know what he wanted to do after seminary he just noted he wanted to be trained and he was listening to God go to this place and I will show you right then right? And so one day he calls me and he was like, hey, I think I know what I want to do. And I was like, great. What are you going to do? And this is what he said, because you're not going to believe. He said, I want to buy a laundromat. What? Why? He was like, I've been exposed to this really cool model of ministry where you own and operate a laundromat and you make it a point to spend your days there and you interact with the customers and you get to know them and you hear their stories. Because people who use laundromats are typically not affluent people. They've typically struggled. And they may be living a life where not very many people care about them. And so I want to show them care. I want to show them that Jesus loves them. I want to show them that they're seen. And I want to build community there. And I think Ashley and I can do this. And there's actually a model of ministry where they're building communities through laundromats and people are coming to Jesus as a result of it. And he said, that's what I want to do. And I said, Heath, that's stupid. That's a bad plan, man. I did. That's what I told him. But I laughed and he laughed and he said, I know. And I said, but if the Lord is directing you to do this, do it. Walk towards the sea. Go ahead. And so he did. And they, they moved, they, he graduated from seminary and they, they, they kind of looked all over the country and they settled on a suburb of Phoenix. And in the suburb of Phoenix, they began to save money for a laundromat, and Heath got another job with another missions organization where he's able to support people who spread Jesus' name throughout the world. And it's a good fit for him. And Ashley got a job as a teacher. And they have a daughter, Lucy, who's Lily's age. And Lucy and Lily have become pen pals. They write each other notes, and they send them to each other. And I should have grabbed one this morning. Jen's not home this weekend, so I didn't know where to find it. And I didn't want to bug her on a Sunday morning. But they are the sweetest little letters they write back and forth to each other. Lucy is the sweetest girl, but for whatever reason, she was having a really hard time at school. She was really getting bullied, really being ostracized, and it was a really hard time for them. And for them, I would point to that as a point of desperation. God, did you send us to seminary and then to Phoenix just to watch our daughter struggle? Wouldn't we have been better in our comfortable life, by the way, doing your ministry in Monroe? Wouldn't that have been better for us? But I believe that that was their point of desperation. And so from that, they've now moved to Tampa and they are thriving there and their story continues. And I do believe that God has walked them to the sea to make his name greater, but I don't know how their story ends. And we may not for a while. But I do know of another story of someone who had the faith to walk towards the sea. I want to introduce you to a hero of our faith, a man named George Mueller. He was born in 1805 in Germany. Here's a picture of him right there. He did not look like that when he was born. He's approximately eight years old in that photo. And he's got one of the cool German U's in his name, which is really neat. I'm jealous of that. But he was born in Germany in 1805. He immigrated to England later in life. And he was attending a church that had an attendance of 18, is what you read, which feels like a small group. But he went to a church of 18. And there he came to know that he already knew the Lord, but he became convicted because the pastor of that church and his wife decided that they were going to embark on a life of faith ministry where they were going to leave their job and go be missionaries and just rely on support from other people. But they were never going to ask for that support. They were just going to pray for it, which is a terrible idea. But they did it and they succeeded. They walked towards the sea. And so George was a pastor, and he went through some hard times with his children where they had a stillborn, and then he had a son, and that son passed away early in life. And that tremendous tragedy, there's nothing sadder than losing children. But it gave him a heart for orphans. It gave him a heart and it says for true orphans with no father and no mother. And so he decided to open an orphanage and then he decided to open multiple orphanages. But his thing was, oh, here's another thing about Mueller that's really interesting that I'm a little bit frustrated about. When he took over the church, you would rent pews. So your family would pay high dollar to sit where Tom and Linda are. This is an expensive pew right here. You guys in the back, you're barely doing anything. Who cares about you? But these are the important seats, right? You would rent a pew, and then that's how the church funded itself. But he looked at that and he said, this isn't right. It's ostracizing the poor people in the down and out. I don't like this anymore. So he eliminated pew rental, which was their source of income to run the church and for him to get paid. And he installed free will gifts, what we call offerings. He was one of the first pastors to invent offerings. And I'm kind of frustrated by it because that makes my life harder. It would be easier to charge you per sermon than it is to ask you to just give what you want. All right. So like when I get to heaven, me and George, I got a joke for him, man. Thanks a lot, buddy. But he just had this giving heart. He said, no, at church, we're not going to ask for people's money. We're going to do freewill offerings. And when he started his orphanages, he said, I'm not going to go around and collect support. I'm not going to charge families. I'm not going to apply for government support. All I'm going to do is pray. When we need something, I'm going to get on my knees and I'm going to pray that we would get it. That's all that he did. And he never went around asking for support. He never went around passing the hat. And now what we know about nonprofits is that that's exactly how you support the nonprofits. As you go around, as a missionary, you come up to the church, you stand up here, you tell your story. If you want to give, you can give. You have galas and you have banquets and you have functions and you have dinners at people's houses where you can share your story and you try to gain supporters. And then you and then we have this whole mechanism for philanthropy where emails go out and we're just keeping you up to date. And like, we know all of that stuff. And listen, I'm not impugning any of those systems or any of the people who have participated in those to support their ministry. I think that's a good thing. I have participated in those. I will continue to participate in those. But George Mueller said, that's not what I feel led to do. I'm just going to pray. And there are stories of him working in an orphanage and looking at the food resources and realizing at the end of this week, we do not have enough food to feed the children next week, and we do not have the money to buy new food. And so he would get down on his knees on the banks of the Red Sea with the army bearing down on him. And instead of fleeing, he would pray. He would pray for food. Father, I know you love these children. I know you care for them. I know you directed my steps here. Would you please provide for them? And every time God God provided. The man never walked around passing a hat. He is a legend in Christian circles. He's got a biography that is absolutely worth reading. And by the end of his life, by the end of his life, I have read that he cared for over 18,000 orphans without ever asking for a penny, without ever doing a single campaign. Through simply prayer, he allowed Jesus to wrap his arms, I'm getting emotional thinking about it, around 18,000 children with no parents. By the end of his life, I have read that he gave away the modern day equivalent of $129 million to ministries outside of his orphanages because he decided, I do not need a surplus to operate. I will pray and God will provide. That man walked towards the sea. He did what makes no sense. And as I tell that story of George Mueller, I think our tendency as we hear that is to say, well, that is exceptional. That is a man of tremendous faith. And you're right. But we also then look at ourselves and we say, but that's not me. I don't have that faith. I'm not going to do that. Or maybe you hear the story of my friends Heath and Ashley who sell their house and move across the country and go to seminary and then buy a laundromat in Tampa, which is weird. And you're like, yeah, I'm not going to do that. I don't think that God is calling me to do that. And so I think what we do is we hear stories like that that we consider heroic or courageous at the very least. And we kind of categorize them as for the exceptional, but not for me. And as I thought about that, it just occurred to me that very few of us have the courage to walk towards the sea. Very few have the courage to walk towards the sea. Very few of us have the courage to sell our house, move across the country, and fundamentally change our life for our girls. Which, by the way, Heath's mom openly wept for days when he said he was moving away because their family is very tight-knit and has lived in the same city for four or five generations. Very few of us have the courage to do that. And so when we hear stories like that, I think the typical reaction is to say, well, I don't know that I can relate to that. You're probably right, because statistically speaking, most of us don't have the courage to walk towards the sea. Most of us want that escape route. But if we'll do it, if we'll walk there, there may be a point of desperation. There may be a time when we regret our choice. But God will come through. And he will come through to use you to make his name great. George Mueller did not know that he was going to be written about in history books and that someone would write a biography and that every seminary student would hear about him. He just walked towards the sea. And I don't know what God is pressing on you to do. I don't know what he's pressing on you to start or stop or engage in or follow through with. But here's what I know. I know that for some of you, I know that for everyone in here, God wants you to do something. He wants you to take some step. He's pressing something on you. And I know that for a few of you, that is ringing loud in your ears. And you know exactly what it it is and you wish I'd let up on it. So some of you need to have the courage to walk towards the pond or the creek. Some of you are facing a sea. But I think what we can take from the story of the parting of the Red Sea is that when God tells us to do something nonsensical and walk towards the ocean, that we can do it in faith that he will make it work, that he will provide and that he will do it to make his name great. So this morning, let me encourage you from this story. Have courage, have faith, and walk towards the sea. Let's pray. Father, thank you so much for this story that we read in Exodus, for what you did for your children, for what you still do now. God, I pray that we would take faith and comfort and solace from what you did. God, I know that there are some of us that you have directed to walk towards a pond, and there are some of us that you have directed to walk towards an ocean. But Father, give us the courage and the faith and the fortitude to step forward in that way and to take those steps and to allow you to pin us against an ocean needing you desperately to resolve the situation. God, we thank you for the story and for what we can learn from it. And God, I pray specifically for those that feel compelled by the Holy Spirit to walk towards the sea. Please give them the courage to do that. In Jesus' name, amen.

Well, good morning. It's good to see everybody. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors here. Thank you, all 26 of you, for joining us this summer Sunday. I'm sure there is a cacophony of folks joining us online, so thank you for doing that, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Before I just dive in, I feel as a pastor that whenever something happens in our world that enters into the national conscience in such a way that a vast majority of us are thinking about it and processing it, that I should probably pause and address it. And so we know, I think, I hope this isn't breaking news to you. If it is, this is a terrible way to find out. But the United States bombed three nuclear facilities in Iran last night. That's a big deal. And it just makes me want to pause and pray before I just dive into the sermon as if nothing's going on. I have no assessment of what's happening. I have no opinion that I will share with you from here of what's happening. But I do have some prayers. The very first thing I thought of because of my recent experience in Istanbul when I got to sit in a circle with Iranian pastors, the very first thing I thought of was my friends and their safety. And some of them are able to flee to the north and out of cities. But I've been told that many of them have moms and family members that are locked into their apartments in Tehran. How terrifying is that? So the first thing I want to pray for is just for the people that would be impacted by the decisions that are being made by other folks. And then I'd like to pray for those other folks that God would give people in control wisdom and put people around them to have wisdom. So if that's alright with you, I'd like to pray for that and then we do the normal, regularly scheduled programming. Let's pray. Father, you have seen all the wars, and you have seen all the suffering, and your heart has been broken as you watch people suffer who had no hand in the violence that was brought to them. And so, God, we lift up the people on both sides who are being harmed and will be harmed by the escalating violence. We pray, Father, that you would bring peace. We pray that the violence would cease, that people would stop losing loved ones, and that you would bring stability to that region. And to that end, God, we just pray for our leaders. We ask that you would give them wisdom, that you would give them depth of insight, that you would surround them with wise counsel, and that your hand would be on the decisions that are made moving forward. We ask these things with a heavy heart, but we ask them in the name of your son. Amen. Hard right turn. I was invited to a Rick Springfield concert a couple of weeks ago. This is actually sincere, and that's how I wanted to start the sermon before I knew that I would be offering a very sincere prayer about a potential war. Yeah, I was texted by a friend who goes to this church, and let's just call him Keith Cathcart, just for the sake of it. And he legitimately invited me to a Rick Springfield. Is that right, Springfield? Steen. Field? Field. Concert. Hard no. Immediately. No, nay chance. No, no, no. I'm not doing that. I couldn't be. You may as well invite me to volunteer with you at the animal shelter. Okay. And if you know me, you know, that's funny because I don't even like dogs, which is weird. I know that's my problem. Here's the, here's another problem I have. I also don't like music. Okay. I don't. I don't want to go to a concert. If the music lasts longer than our worship set, sometimes Gibby, three songs, too many, too many. I can't stay engaged for that many songs. And if it's louder than, if the music is so loud that I can't talk to my friends, it's like, why are we here? I don't want to be in this place. And then it's Rick Springfield. I thought that was an SNL character. I didn't even know he was real. And I couldn't, I didn't know anything. I was like, what does he even sing? And so I think I asked Jen, I did a quick Google search. I asked Jen, and she told me Jesse's Girl. And I was like, right. I do know that one. I have heard it. I will not sing it for you, but I have heard it. Yeah, thank you, Elaine says. You're welcome, pal. Now I'm tempted to do it just to spite you, you know? I'm not willing to humiliate myself in that way. And it was like, oh, yeah, right. Okay, I think I do know who that guy is. And I think that that's how we think of the 10 plagues. We have a loose awareness that there were plagues. We've heard about them our whole life, most of us. Because if you're coming to church in June, you're like a Christian Christian. You know what I mean? Like you're real Christian. So you've heard of the plagues before. But I bet if I asked you, name all 10, I don't think you could do it. I really don't think you could. I think very few people, Mike Harris just led a study on, I should call you up here and make you do this, Mike. I bet he could get a lot. As I was kind of going through, I'm pretty sure I could get eight of them. But I think as I remind you of what the plagues are, that we're going to go, oh, that's right. There was that one too. And so we'll kind of have that moment together. This morning is unusual for me because I'm not going to open the Bible and read directly from Scripture, which is kind of a cardinal rule that I try to never break. It's just that the plagues are in chapters seven through 11 of Exodus. And there's no one like crucial verse that defines the plagues and what they are. But these plagues that I'm going to list are listed there. And I just didn't want to read you every verse of every plague because that's disengaging. So anyways, that's my personal confession. But here are the 10 plagues, okay? The setting is, most of us know, but in case we don't, the children of Israel are enslaved by Egypt. They're under the thumb of Pharaoh. And God appears to Moses in a burning bush and he says, I want you to go back. I want you to leave my people. I want you to go to Pharaoh. And I want you to tell him to let my people go. I would like for you to go tell Pharaoh to release his economy and workforce. That's what he tells him. And so he goes to Pharaoh and he says, let my people go. And Pharaoh says, I'm not going to do that. And he goes, okay, well then God's going to send plagues on your nation. So he sends these plagues. And I've made this point before a couple of weeks ago when we were talking about it. I don't have, there's no indication of the timeframe of these. I don't know if these were one right after the other, like over the course of a month or a couple of weeks, or if they were protracted out over the course of a year or two or more. I really don't know. And I'm not sure there's an indication of it, but this is what God does to get the attention of Pharaoh. First thing he does is he turns the water into blood. The Nile River, as the account records for us, was turned into blood. After that, there was frogs that swarmed Egypt from the Nile. And I happen to know somebody who is unnaturally and deathly terrified of frogs. This would be the worst possible plague for that person. She would rather get boils all over her body than frogs anywhere. So this would be a particularly terrible plague for some. Then there was a plague of lice, then flies, then there was the death of their cattle, then there was a plague of ash falling from the sky, then a plague of hail, then locusts, then darkness, and then we know the last one, the death of the firstborn. I don't know how many of those you would have gotten, but maybe you just went, oh yeah, those are right. But those were the plagues. And with each plague, God is making a request. Will you let my people go now? And Pharaoh says no. And really at its baseline, the request is, are you going to let me win? Are you going to give me my way? And Pharaoh says, no, I'm going to win. And so he stays stubbornly in his stance and digging his heels in. No, God, you are not going to win. I am going to win. Those are the plagues. But here's what you may not know about the plagues that I didn't learn until probably about 10 years ago. So I grew up my whole life knowing about the plagues and knowing that the point of them was to get Pharaoh humbled and broken so he would let God's people go. The whole point of them was for Pharaoh to finally let God win and for God to claim victory. I knew that, but what I didn't know is this. In the plagues, God was systematically dismantling Egyptian allegiance. In the plagues, God was systematically dismantling Egyptian allegiance. And when I say allegiance, I mean allegiance to their gods. Most of us are probably aware that Egyptians worshipped a pantheon of gods. They had a god for everything. For day and for night and for sun and for moon and for war and for peace and for fertility. That God's for everything. And what we may not know about the plagues is that each plague was a systemic and intentional assault on one of the gods of Egypt. To show the Egyptians and to show Pharaoh, I am more powerful than that God. The water, just for your own edification, the water to blood was an attack on Heket, the goddess of fertility. Frogs from the Nile was an attack on Geb, the god of the earth. Lice was Kepri, the god of creation. Flies was Hathor, goddess of love. Death of the cattle was Isis, the goddess of medicine. Ash was the god of nut, who's the god of the sky. Hail was Seth, the god of storms. Locust, Ra, the sun god. Darkness, Pharaoh, who they viewed as a god. And the firstborn is how you transferred your power to the next generation. It was an assault on that God as well. So in the plagues, God is systematically assaulting their gods and their frame of reference. He's doing it intentionally. Last week, we talked about God as I am and how we said, I am all that you need. I am all the gods, all the time. And here, he's meeting that out, pointing out to them, I'm more powerful than that god. Pharaoh, I'm more powerful than that god. Are you going to let me win now? Pharaoh, I'm more powerful than that god. Are you going to let me win now? This is what the plagues are, and when we realize that, that this was a systemic attack on their gods, it's, to me, a much more powerful story. I do, however, think that as Americans, we have a difficult time relating to that story. Because my assumption and perception of most of you in this room is that in our culture, and particularly in what demographics are represented here, we never really made a choice between this God or that God. I would be willing to bet that very few of you here, if anybody in the room right now, has ever considered, do I want to worship the Christian God, or do I want to worship the Muslim God or do I want to worship the Muslim God or maybe Buddhists or maybe I want to be Hindu and worship thousands of those gods. Maybe I want to embrace Judaism and worship God the Father but not God the Son as he's depicted in Christianity. Most of us here have never chosen between gods. The choice we make in our subculture in America is typically God or no God. Right? We choose the Christian God or we don't believe in God. That's kind of a binary choice for us. So it's difficult to relate to a story where there's a pantheon of gods being worshipped and God is showing that he's superior to those gods. Because if we're here and we believe in the Christian God, we just accept it by default and as fact that he would be superior to what we think are made up gods. Right? It kind of doesn't make any sense to even consider it. And so it's hard to relate to the story because we don't really have a pantheon of gods. We don't think we have a pantheon of gods, but we do. We absolutely do. We don't call them gods because we're intellectually dishonest, but we have pillars of our culture. We have things in the American culture that we worship. We pray to the altar of things that are not God the Father, for sure. We pray to the God of career. We might not ever say it out loud, but we orchestrate our life around it. We worship it. We prioritize it. Do we not? We are defined by our careers. It's a trope, and it's an easy thing to point out, but it's also true. When we meet people, within the first three questions, what do you do? Right? And if they're a stay-at-home mom, what's probably typical, I don't know because I'm not a stay-at-home mom, but what I would think would be the response when they say, well, I don't work, I'm a stay-at-home mom, is that now in that conversation, they feel a little less. And then if they say, I'm the CEO of blank, they feel a little bit more, right? And so we value people based on their careers. And then this is how sick I am about it if I don't keep it in check. When you tell me what you do for work, I go, that's wonderful. What do you want to be doing in five years? I want to know what your career goals are immediately. When I was younger, when I was in my 20s, I woke up early every day and I read books so that I could be what I wanted to be in my 30s. Like we get addicted to this and it drives us. And this, I say this room, we're missing like 75% of the church today. So also people watching later, this room is an accomplished room. This room is a room that does care and has cared deeply about careers. And if we don't watch it, what we find is that we pray at the altar of those and we serve them. So sometimes we get caught up in worshiping the God of careers. Let me tell you another one that I want to spend a little bit of time on because I think it's important and we don't talk about it very much. Sports. Nice 49ers shirt, Tom. Sorry. Tom's an elder. He's a great guy. He's also really funny. We pray at the altar of sports. We allow them to be too much. We do. Years ago, I'm a Falcons fan, which is a curse. It's a curse. I don't like it. I don't want to be a Falcons fan. I don't want to be a Georgia Tech fan. I don't want to. I would like to choose other teams, but that's not how sports works, okay? The Falcons are my team. And a few years ago, I was watching them, and every Sunday, I couldn't have anybody around me, and I couldn't speak during the game. I was insufferable to be around and if they lost it ruined my day and Jen finally told me hey it's pretty immature to allow a sports team to impact how you treat your family maybe you should care less is that fair the facsimile thereof? Okay. And I went, she's right. She always is. I'm sure you've picked up on that. And I realized I needed to detach myself from that. I had a friend who at one point in his life, and this is just sick of behavior. This is terrible. He went to 149 straight UGA games, home and away. 149 straight. That's a wild commitment. And God got a hold of him and convicted him. He was like, yeah, I got to stop. And his goal was to get to 200. He's like, I got to stop. I can't do this anymore. Sometimes we make sports too important. I have another point to make here, but as someone who's done funerals and who sits with families and says, tell me about your dad. It always makes me so sad when one of the top three things that they know about their dad is that he liked this team. That's your legacy? Liking a team? Cool. I hope I do more with my life so that when my kids are asked about me, they don't lead with I I like the Falcons, right? So sometimes we make a God out of sports. Now here's the other way we do it. And this is what I really want to say. The culture around sports and in our culture now has gotten so absurd that families begin to worship it without realizing it. Lily played challenge soccer last season. And what that meant is she, we had two practices a week. The practices lasted an hour and a half for nine-year-olds. I was one of the assistant coaches and I thought it was dumb, but it lasted 90 minutes, 20 minutes there, 20 minutes back. We are wrapping two hours plus twice a week into practice. And then there's games on Saturdays and sometimes on Sundays. And then one weekend there's a tournament and you know who you play in the tournament, the other four teams that you've already played three times during the season, who cares? It's dumb. And it takes so much time and so much energy and so much money to make this happen. And that's the lowest level of it. And the truth is, parents who currently have kids of the age to play sports, let me just say this objectively to you. You do not have to be very good at a sport to get on a team that will take your time and your money. Okay? So your kid making challenge soccer isn't a big deal. And then what happens is the coaches and the leagues tell us that we have to do more, more, more. And now that's ruling our families. It's consuming our time, talent, and treasure. And I have seen over the years at my old church and at this church, I have seen families that handle this very well. And we have some great examples here of families whose kids are highly athletic and they are still highly involved. And they prioritize things that we would encourage them to prioritize. So some families handle it very, very well. I have watched it wipe off the map other families where they're engaged in church. They're raising their kids in church. They're serving in whatever capacity they're serving and kids and kids grow up and then they get of age when they start to play sports. And then dad starts to think maybe they're good at sports. And then we commit more time to sports and they come less and less and they volunteer less and less. And I see them less and less. And then here's, let me tell you what happens is I've had, I've talked to so many parents when I was a student pastor and I would be talking to them about their graduating senior. And I've heard this comment so many times in my life, you know, we regret that we didn't spend more time getting them to church and less time playing sports. I have never heard the contrary. It would be a weird thing to say to a pastor, but I've never heard anyone say, I wish we would have focused more on sports and less on church. Before we know it, we're praying at the altar of sports, and that becomes our God. So we should check that. We pray at the altar of wealth. In America, if you have money, you're good. You're a good person. You've been successful. You've made good decisions. You may not be morally good, but you've won the game, right? And so now wealthy people, better, better looking because they have more money for better haircuts. Poor people, worse, worse looking because they cut their own hair, right? This is how we value people and we pray at the altar of wealth. We pray at the altar of comfort. We don't want to get our feathers ruffled. We don't want to get involved. We don't want to feel uncomfortable. We make our life comfortable. We make our life predictable so that we don't have to feel discomfort when we don't want to. And if there are pain points, instead of leaning into that discomfort and trying to figure out why it's there, we just figure out a way to alleviate it and never have to deal with it. So we pray to the God of comfort. I could go on and on and on. My point is, when we look at the 10 plagues and the systematic assault on these gods, at first glance, I think we find it difficult to relate to, but if we'll stop and be thoughtful about it for a little bit, what we'll realize is, no, no, we do have a pantheon of gods. And many of us in different times and in different seasons for different reasons have prayed to those gods rather than our God. And so it made me think, what would it look like if God assaulted our gods? What would it look like if God were going to systematically dismantle the gods that we have in our pantheon? And I thought of this season of my life where he dismantled one of mine. This god still creeps back up. I've got to keep it in check. But he exposed me to it and he dismantled it. In my early years as a pastor, I would have people say nice things to me. And sometimes they would say, you should be a senior pastor. And so people would speak potential into me. You've got a future here. Actually, the funniest thing that's ever happened, this is just an aside, it's just funny, is I preached one time at my last church when I was the, I spoke about 10 times a year, and one of my buddy's dads was there. And I preached, and we got done, and his dad came up to me. His dad came up to me. We called him, his name was Doug, but he had the largest noggin I've ever seen in my life, and so we called him Doug the Head. That was his name. So Doug the Head comes walking up to me, and he goes, man, that was, buddy, that was good. And I said, thank you so much. I appreciate that. And he goes, no, no, no, I'm telling you, I've been in the radio business for 35 years. And I go, okay, great. And he goes, no, listen, you could do that professionally. And I didn't say this, but I thought like, you know, they pay me. That was professionally. Thanks. But people would say nice things and they would speak potential into me. And I'm very sure that many of you have had people speak potential into you about different things in your life and so I carried that sense of responsibility with that potential and I had this question in my head can I actually do it and then you guys were crazy enough to find out to give give me a chance. And it went. In April of 17, there was 85 people in the room. In February of 17, there's 85 people in the room. April, there's 100. By January or by February of 2020, we had two good services. The second one was averaging about 100 people, so we reached like a critical mass. And we were averaging about 335 people a week. Bunch of kids, bunch of new folks, things are going and blowing. We do a campaign. We have more pledged than we even asked for and way more than we thought we would. And this whole time as we're growing, I'm telling people it's not about the growth. God is blessing us. This is good. This is wonderful. Nothing that we're doing is about making the church bigger, yada, yada, yada, all the things you're supposed to say. But internally, if I can just be honest, I did it. I'm somebody. Look at me go. This is all God and a little bit me. And I was proud. I was. And I can admit that now. And I'll admit now that I still struggle with that, but I fight it a lot harder and I'm a lot more honest with myself about it. Then COVID hit. So in February, two services, 335 people. Next time we had a service, it was July. There was 40 people wearing masks. If you were here during that season and you did worship with a mask on your face, it was the worst. It was terrible. You can't hear anybody. There's 35 people in the room. It was the deadest worship ever. It was awful. And I got depressed. I started seeing a therapist because all my self-worth just went out the window. And what I realized was, through conversations with him, I was worshiping at the God of respect, of approval, of accomplishment. I was worshiping at the God of proving myself to myself and to anyone paying attention. And do you know what God did with COVID? He systematically dismantled my God. Now listen, I do not want to give you the impression that I think that God orchestrated a worldwide pandemic so that he could teach a real lesson to a small church pastor in Raleigh. Okay? It's silly when we think that. But what I am saying is that he used that to dismantle my God and my life and build me back up. And here's what happened as a result of that. And as a result of the therapy and the counseling that I went through as I kind of dug and dug and dug and went, why am I worshiping at this God? What is the deal? And here's what it did. Here's the fundamental change it made in how I pastor. And it's more, this is more disclosure than I want to give, but I think it's helpful. And I think some of you can relate. I used to write sermons with the goal, I wouldn't state this, I would never say this out loud to anybody at the time, but I used to write sermons with the goal of being impressive. I wanted to impress you when I preached. When I got here, that's why I wrote sermons. Anything else I said was fluff. Obviously I wanted to serve God in all the things, but somewhere in there, I want to impress you. That's probably my main motivation. And now, my motivation is I want to help you. That's what I think about. Is this helpful? I don't think about being impressive. Not nearly as much. Sometimes I'll get caught in that trap, but not nearly as much. When God dismantled my God, I left that season of my life and I went, man, leading grace and doing my job is not about being impressive with people. It's not about growing the church. It's not about big numbers. It's about being faithful in the small things. It's about honoring people. It's about being humble and being honest and trying your best to help the people that God entrusts to you. And so what I used to do when I finished a sermon is I go and I sit in that chair. And what I used to do if I had a bad sermon, I would be upset. And the core emotion was, gosh, that was not impressive enough. And now if I sit there, and sometimes I do, and I might after this one go, gosh, that wasn't very good. It's my criticism and my response is that wasn't helpful enough. Do you see the difference? Here's my point, and here's why I'm telling you this. When we let God win, we win. When we let God win, we win. Pharaoh refused to let God win. And when he finally did, everybody won. I had a God in my life that I was not aware of. And God began to dismantle it. And it was hard to let go. But when I let God win, the people around me won. I can guess at some of the gods that we have in this room. At some of the things that you pray to. But I don't know what they are specifically for you. But I can tell you that sometimes in life, something bad happens. Maybe not plague worthy, but something hard. Our kid gets injured and can't play that sport for a while. We get laid off. They let our department go. The big client that we have bails and now we have to scramble to make up those sales. We get in debt. We get sick. Our kid's having a hard time. It's in a difficult season. Our relationship or our marriage is on the rocks and we're not sure how to repair it. I'm not saying that every single one of those things is an assault on a God in your life, but I am saying that you should stop and ask if it is. And take from the plagues, God, are you trying to win something here? Are you trying to show me that I have something positioned in my priorities and in my life that is out of whack? Have I been finding my identity in my career and not in you? Have I been finding my identity in my kids and not in you? In my house and not in you? In my wealth, in my status, in my approval and not in you? So when we see the plagues, when we're reminded of them, let's be reminded that this was a systematic assault on the pantheon of Egyptian gods, and that same God will still assault our gods and dismantle them for our sake. Because when God wins, we win. But here's the thing, and I love to point this out. You will never lose an arguing match with God. If you want to argue with God, you win. Congratulations. God will not force his hand on us. He loves us too much to do that. He will not make us do things. But he will give us points in time to reflect and say, there's something wrong here. But when God's trying to win, he'll keep a steady hand on it. But you have to let him. You win every argument you ever get into with God. But when God wins, we win. Let's pray. Father, thank you for being a God who loves us. Thank you for being a God that doesn't force yourself upon us, but that gently pushes us in different ways at different times towards you. Lord, if we have been worshiping at the altar of things that are not you, I pray that you would reveal that to us. I pray that we would see it. And I pray that you would give us a depth of conviction and courage to confess that and to move away from that, God, and to move towards you. God, this morning, it's clear to me that we have a lot of people traveling, and so I just ask that you would keep them safe and that their trips would be enriching. I pray for grace as we enter into the summer. God, would you keep your hand on us and bless us? And God, would you help us be people who let you win? In Jesus' name, amen.

Well, good morning. It's good to see everybody. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors here. If I haven't gotten the chance to meet you, I would be shocked because it's Memorial Day and no one visits a church on Memorial Day. But if you are doing that, I'd love to meet you in the lobby after the service. And as I always say on holiday Sundays, if you are here in church on a holiday Sunday, God does love you more than vacationing Christians. It is objectively true if you're watching online. Thanks so much for doing that. Try to be here next year. And here's what, Memorial Day is a special day for me. I'm not going to get into it because we have a lot of ground to cover and what I want to talk about this morning because I thought Memorial Day would be a great day to talk about pain and suffering and why bad things happen to good people feels right but I I just I love I love you guys I love my church I love how we worship and here's how I know that the good Christians came today. Because this is just a little bit behind the scenes, how the sausage is made. Sometimes Gibby and I, Gibson, Aaron Gibson, our worship pastor, will talk. And I'll just kind of say like, hey, be careful about laying out and letting the congregation sing. Because there's not many people here or the vibe is weird or there's not good energy and that might fall flat and then that'll be terrible. So let's relax on that. And he's like, yeah, you're right. And so for him to be able, and I'm being honest, for him to be able in worship to lay out on Memorial Day and say, just you sing, and for me to be here and hear my church praising our God on Memorial Day, we got the worshipers here today. So that was good. That was good. And I enjoyed that very much. Before I just barrel into the sermon, we should acknowledge what today is. We live in a country where we can do this freely, where the barrier to entry to church is extremely low because we have religious freedoms that have been fought for and have been died for. And we celebrate those today, not just our religious freedoms, but our freedom of speech and all the other things. And it is worth it and appropriate and good to take a minute today and acknowledge the freedom that we have, the morning that we can enjoy, and the lives that have been lost for that sake, to earn us this freedom. So it's worth acknowledging here at the head that we don't sit here for lack of sacrifice. And we honor those sacrifices today. This morning is our last morning in our series called FAQs. Next week, I'm excited. We're going to launch a, we're going to launch a, it's actually, so you guys may hear this and groan. Okay, so please don't do that because I think it's actually going to be really good and we're going to enjoy it. We're going to do a 14-week series in Moses. Bill, Bill Reed, a long time, a resting elder. I said that. He goes, what? Like, it made a faith. Yes, Bill, 14 weeks, baby. Buckle up. We're going to be in Exodus going through the life of Moses. There's so much to learn about the life of Moses and from his life. And I'm excited to begin that journey with you guys. But this week we're wrapping up our series FAQ, which as you've been told, we kind of solicited some questions from small groups and from different people in the church. And I've interacted with ideas that as a pastor, I get these questions a lot. And the most common question to come up when you solicit these things from people, what do you have questions about? What questions about your faith exist? Every time something like this is done, at least in my experience, the most common question to come up is the question of suffering, which is generally phrased, why do bad things happen to good people? And implicit in that question is, why does a God who says he loves us let my dad die, right? That's what we're asking. Why does a God who says he loves us allow these terrible things to happen? Why are school shootings a thing? Why is genocide a thing? Why was the Holocaust or slavery a thing? That's what we're asking. And that comes up all the time. And I don't know about you, but the way that I've experienced my understanding of a theology of suffering over my years as a believer is in my early years, I'm kind of handed an apparatus or a way to understand suffering that helps me process it when it happens to other people. And so that's sufficient for me then. But then my life, then I encounter profound suffering. I'm like, whoa, what I was handed is not adequate to explain this to me and help me reconcile it and be okay with it. And then down the road, there's something else that happens. And now you have to explain suffering to someone else. And, and what you've been handed is not adequate to explain it to them. And so you realize there's some deficiency in how you understand suffering and the theology of suffering. And here's why this is really important, because when we misunderstand the theology of suffering, this more often, I think, than almost anything else within the Christian realm causes people to actually walk away from their faith because the way that they understand suffering isn't robust enough to be adequate for the experiences that they're having in their life. And so they allow suffering to actually move them away from God rather than run to God. So it becomes very important to develop a robust theology of suffering for the sake of maintaining our faith and fidelity to God. So it's important that we talk about it this morning. And typically, when we think about suffering and this challenging theology of suffering, we go to circumstances like one that I've, that shaped my way of thinking about suffering, which is when my, one of my best friends, a guy named Chris Gerlach was 30 years old. Gerlach and I were roommates in college. We used to keep each other up at night, each other the Tsar of Dumb and you're the King of Stupid and you are the Emperor of Moronity and things like that. That's the kind of friendship that we had. Gerlach was a great man. And at 30, as a pastor, with three kids under five, He was in good health playing frisbee, playing ultimate frisbee. He threw a touchdown pass 40 yards. They caught it, celebrated, turned around to celebrate with Gerlach and he was dead on the field. Widowmaker heart attack. I watched at the graveside his five-year-old knock on his coffin and ask his mom, my wife's college roommate, Carla, when is daddy going to wake up? That's when you go back to scripture and you go, God, why would you let that happen? Right? And I'm not so naive as to think that you don't all have very similar stories of a time in your life when you say, God, why would you let this thing happen? And so here's what I'm going to say about this, because this is, that kind of suffering is actually not the suffering that I want to talk about today. Because I've done that before. And if you've been here for a long time, you've heard me tell that story before. And we've talked about it. And I've done three or four sermons about that level of suffering that just mystifies you and makes you go, my goodness, God, how could you allow this? And so as I approached it today, I thought, I don't want to do that sermon again. I don't think it serves the church to do that sermon again. I think there's actually another thing about suffering that we need to think about. But before I just jumped into what I want us to think about today, I didn't want to breeze past that kind of suffering that is so mystifying and so grief-inducing that it causes you to question your faith. And so on that, I've done three or four sermons. And if you're interested in them, email me and I will send you the link and say, this is where I talked about this. Because it's important to address that kind of profound grief. But here's the very quick version of how that sermon goes, okay? I'm going to give you the cliff notes. I'm going to move very fast. I'm going to answer this question, how do we address profound grief? And then I want to move into actually what I want to talk to you about reframing the way we think about suffering today. The answer to the question in very profound grief is John 11, 35, which is simply this, shortest verse in the Bible, Jesus wept. That's the answer to profound suffering, okay? The situation here, when this verse comes up, Jesus' purported best friends, Mary, Martha, and Lazarus had sent word to Jesus that Lazarus was dying. Could you please come heal him? And Jesus says, okay. And then he waits two days and then he goes to Bethany where they lived. And as he's on the way to Bethany, Lazarus dies and outside their their home, Mary meets Jesus on the street. And she's weeping and she says, why did you do this? Why did you let my brother die? Why are you allowing me to be in this kind of pain? It's the question we ask when we suffer. God, why'd you do this? And Jesus' response in that suffering is, he wept. He wept. Now, here's why this is important. Years ago, I listened to one of the most impactful sermons I've ever heard in my life by a pastor from California named Rick Warren. Many of you have probably heard of him. He had a, I believe, a 27 or 29-year-old son that took his own life because he dealt with mental health issues. And when that happened, he stepped out of the pulpit for a few months. And when he came back, he preached a sermon series that I would highly recommend you Google called How I Got Through What I Went Through. And in that opening sermon, he pointed to Jesus wept. And he said this, I'll never forget this. We pastors put phrases up on the screen and you write down and fill in the blanks. And here's what I know. You don't remember that crap. You don't know what I said. It doesn't matter. But every now and again, something happens that you remember. And this is one that I remember. And he said, we serve a God that offers us his presence because explanations don't help. He offers us his presence and he offers us his hope because what we need in moments of profound grief is not explanations. We need him. And so Jesus weeping in John 11 is a depiction of the fact that we have a God that in moments of profound grief offers us his empathy. And he offers us his tears. And he offers us his presence. So that is the Cliff Notes version of that sermon. If I were going to preach that sermon, I would just add in some other illustrations and some other points and make it last 30 minutes, but I would just say that. That's the answer to grief, is that our God doesn't offer us explanations because we can't really handle them and we can't really understand them, but he offers us his presence. And that's unique in the pantheon of gods that the world would offer to us. So with that being said, if we can together as a room set that aside and go, okay, there's some grief that requires profound empathy from God. And it might not have a purpose and it might not be on, it might not be God's plan. It might just happen. And we have to process that and deal with that. And that's one of the things that I think for sure is that no one dodges the raindrops of tragedy in their life. Everyone deals with profound grief. And the reality of the world is, according to Romans 8, that all of creation yearns for the return of the king to set right this creation. And then the verse that I point out all the time in Revelation, at the end of days, there'll be no more weeping and no more crying and no more pain anymore for the former things have passed away. And so sometimes we just accept that profound grief is part of those former things that we will not have to deal with in eternity. And so we set those aside and God is present with us in that suffering. But there are other kinds of suffering that don't fit in that box and that we don't talk about enough. And so this morning, what I want to invite you to do is instead of thinking about all of suffering and all sadness and all grief in that box, can we create another larger box for other kinds of suffering? And I believe that it's Hebrews 12 that actually creates this box for us and this other way to think about why sometimes suffering happens in our lives. I want to read to you Hebrews chapter 12, verses 4 through 12. It's a lot, but it's important, so we're going to process it together. Here's what it says. In your struggle against sin, you have not resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And you have completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son or his child. It says, my son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline. And do not lose heart when he rebukes you. Because the Lord disciplines the one he loves and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. Here's the encouragement. Endure hardship as discipline. God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined and everyone undergoes discipline, then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the father of spirits and live? They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best, but God disciplines us for our good in order that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. Therefore, and I'm coming back to this verse because this is a good one. Strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees, he says. So here's what this passage allows us to understand and begin to frame up about the occurrences of suffering and hardship in our life. In some suffering, like we just talked about, there is empathy. But in most suffering, there is purpose. So in some suffering, it's so gut-wrenching and heartbreaking that I would never look at Carla Gerlach and tell her after her child knocked on the coffin and say, when is dad going to wake up? I would never whisper in her ear, hey, God has a purpose for this and you're going to be better for it. I would never do that. That would be clumsy and stupid. And if you ever say that to someone who's just lost a loved one, you should be slapped in the face right away or chopped in the throat. Just something. Maybe backhanded, old school style. That'd be great with a glove. That's a clumsy, stupid thing to say. Please don't say that to people. So sometimes profound suffering, there is empathy. Jesus weeps. But what I would posit to you, for you to assess on your own, is whether or not most suffering is actually allowed by God and is purposeful. In some suffering, there is empathy. But in most suffering, there is purpose. And so what we want to focus on today is the suffering that God allows for that purpose. And what I want to encourage you to think about is some times in your life when you've suffered, some times in your life when you've hurt, or maybe what you're walking through right now that is difficult, a difficult relationship, job, friendship, situation with your children, maybe your marriage is hard, maybe work is tough right now. Every one of us has a pain point in our life, something that's causing us to suffer. And so what I want to encourage you to do this morning is to consider those things and to ask the question, is it possible that what I don't need in this situation is empathy? What I actually need is to believe in the purpose that God has in allowing this to occur in my life. With that in mind, I want to revisit verses six and seven because I think there's a profound truth there. Verse six says, because the Lord disciplines the one he loves and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. Seven, endure hardship as discipline. God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? And then if you go on an eight, it says if you're not disciplined, you're actually being neglected. You don't belong to him. And as I read that, and as I was preparing this sermon, in my house that week, my daughter Lily and I had a tough day. I don't know if you know this, but my children as pastor's children are not perfect. And if you'd like to judge me for that, up yours, because neither are your kids, okay? So let's just cover that right there. And Lily and I are very similar. And we had a day where we butted heads. And there were big emotions. And she's nine, she's allowed big emotions. We have to learn to process those. And she says some things to me that would, frankly, have gotten my butt beat when I was a kid. That would have been a big, regretful decision. And so later, I came back to her when things were calm. I said, hey, I love you. And here's a phrase that I use with her a lot. I love you too much to allow you to act like that. I love you too much to allow you to say things like that. I love you too much to allow you to think that that is an okay way to respond in situations like that. Because I love you that much, there will be consequences for your actions. You will feel pain, which usually comes in the form of screen time. Or mommy's not going to sing songs to you tonight. That's the worst. That's a big one. But I have to tell my daughter who I love. And I have to tell my son who I love. And my parents had to tell me this. I love you too much to not do everything in my power to fashion you into who God created you to be. That's my job. And I love you too much to not do that. Now in the moment, this for her is painful. But let's put on our big boy and our big girl pants and ask the question, is it possible that sometimes God allows pain in our lives that hurts very much, that is very inconvenient and uncomfortable, because he loves us too much to not fashion us into the people that he created us to be. Is it not possible that some pain and some suffering, and I would posit most pain and suffering, is actually good? Is this not possible, this idea that some pain is from God? We don't talk about this a lot. I don't preach about this a lot. Pastors don't like to bring this up. But is it possible that some pain and grief, that where your mind goes as you identify the suffering in your life and the things that are hard in your life? Is it not possible that God is using those things to fashion you into the person he wants you to be because he loves you too much to not work on you in that way? Is it possible that your suffering is actually a result of your father's love? The idea for this sermon actually came from my trip to Istanbul in March. And I don't mean to keep bringing it up, but clearly, I can't just preach out of that trip forever. You guys will get tired of it. But clearly, it was an impactful trip for me. And this is actually the sermon that I'm giving you today. It's a truncated version of my friend's slide deck. It's a 90-minute presentation called Sonship and Suffering based in Hebrews chapter 12. So I'm giving you the 25-minute version of it because I took five minutes to talk about other suffering. You don't even have to sit through the 90 minutes, okay? I'm saving you from that suffering. So you should be grateful. And he preached this. He taught this to a room of Iranian pastors who suffer for their faith. And let's just be very clear about this, okay? I'm not going to belabor this point because if you can't agree with me on it, you're an unreasonable person. Iranian Christians suffer more than American ones, okay? And he preached it to them. And I asked him, where do you get off preaching this to Iranian pastors risking their families for their faith from the comfort of Chapel Hill? I didn't phrase it like that. It was nicer, but that was the question. And he said, it's in the Bible. I'm a general. I have to deploy the troops, and this is what's required. And that was moving. But if it's true in that room, it's true here. And here's the other thing that he helped me understand about the Lord's discipline. And this is really important. Do you realize that not all discipline is punitive? Not all discipline is punitive. We submit ourselves to discipline all through life that is uncomfortable at the time because we believe what it will bring about. So not, not all discipline is punitive. And it kind of, this bomb went off in my head where I was like, oh, so God could be allowing me to suffer, not because I did anything wrong or anything bad or because he's disappointed in me. He just sees this needs to happen. And so he's allowing this hardship to happen in my life to bring about a greater good later, not all discipline is punitive. And I immediately went back to the season in my life that I've talked about a few times when I was an assistant football coach for a small private school. And the head coach was a man that I loved named Robert McCready, Coach McCready. Coach McCready was a recon Marine in Vietnam, baby. He crawled around shirtless in tunnels, rooting out the Viet Cong. He was a tough son of a gun. And he ran tailback for Auburn in the 60s. And we would have summer workouts, optional for the team. Optional because you don't have to come, but if you don't come, you will never play. So optional, right? We'd have summer workouts. And the first thing he would do in these summer workouts is he would line the team all up and he would tell them to get on the ground and do stretches and do pushups and do sit-ups. He would lay them on the grass. And the grass in the South, you know, is covered with dew. And he called these exercise dew soakers. That's what he called them. I'm going to roll them around and get them to soak up the dew in their shorts and in their shirts so that we can have a dry field to practice on. And the dew is going to make them uncomfortable and teach them to be tough. So suck it up. These are dew soakers. Now listen. Had any of those kids done anything wrong? No. Did any of those kids do anything to deserve having to soak up the dew? Yeah, they showed up. That's discipline. It's uncomfortable. It's painful at the time. But it was to bring about a result later. By the way, we won back-to-back-to-back championships. So, you know, do some do-soakers. Pretty good. We have a way of thinking about discipline and even assigning it to God. Is it possible that God's allowing pain in our life that somehow that's punitive pain? That's not how we think about discipline in other areas of our life. It's just something that we need. And here's the better way to think about it. And Hebrews 12 actually frames it up for us. Hebrews 12, verse 11. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. And so what he explains is, yeah, there's times in our life where we go through painful experiences. And no discipline at the time is pleasant. Soaking the dew with your shorts and letting it get on your underwear and make you uncomfortable while you run around for two and a half hours is unpleasant. But it brought about a result that they were all committed to. This is how the Lord's discipline and pain works in our life. One of the most difficult seasons that I've ever been through in my life was from about fourth grade to somewhere in sixth grade when I was bullied pretty badly by kids in my neighborhood. I know that you look at me and you're like, but Nate, you're so cool and charismatic and awesome. How could that possibly happen? It's a crazy time. But I had these older kids that lived in my neighborhood. And a good instance is there was one day where they had found these industrial-sized rubber bands. And they snipped them so they were just long. And they hid in the bushes. They got off the bus before I did. So they hid in the bushes at the bus stop and they waited for me to get off the bus. And they chased me home home popping me with these rubber bands in my ears and my neck and in my legs and making me cry. And I can sense that some of you are taking joy in this story. Alright? I'm going to preach about repentance next week. You need to deal with that. But they sent me home making me cry and they called me names. And it was a really hard season. It really was a season of profound bullying. And I honestly, as I think about it now, I have this vivid memory of sitting on the couch with my mom, with her holding me as I'm crying because I've just been bullied again. And she's crying. And she said, I wish I could be bullied for you, which is the instinct of every parent. Of course, of course. John fell down yesterday and scraped his knee. And my first thought was, I wish I could fall for you, buddy. That's the instinct. And so as painful as it was for me, I think there's an argument to be made that it would be more painful for my mom. But that was a season of hardship. But let me tell you something. I was talking with a friend this week. And I told him that being a pastor is weird. And I'm not trying to elicit your sympathy here. This is for a point, okay? And I think it illustrates it well. I don't mean to talk about myself in this way. But I said, being a pastor is weird. Because I don't know if you've ever thought about this or not, but when you're a pastor, everyone that you meet in your whole life instantly has an expectation of your behavior. It's just true. Everyone I ever meet, as soon as they learn my profession, they have a backlog of things that they think I should live up to. We may agree about those ideas, we may not, but that's what they think. Because I was bullied and given a thick skin and able to learn important lessons about not letting the opinions of others impact how I think about myself or how I feel, I am able with that reality to say this. This might sound harsh to you. And I don't mean it to be. It's just the truth. I have developed, between me and God and people that I love, standards for myself and my behavior. And I see that it is my responsibility to live up to God's expectations of me and live up to my expectations of myself for my behavior. And if my expectations for myself align with yours, wonderful. If they don't, there's other churches. Take off. Doesn't matter. Not going to affect me. Why can I do that? Because God allowed me to be bullied from fourth to sixth grade and insisted that I develop a tough skin because I believe that he saw down the road what he was going to ask me to do, what my assignment was going to be. At the time, the discipline was painful, but I believe wholeheartedly that it had a greater purpose. And I can tell you earnestly that I'm grateful for those years in my life because of who they fashioned me into to prepare me for the road that God was going to have me walk later. Yeah? I don't know what you're dealing with. a fruit down the years that you can't see. But I do know that it's possible. And I know that if every time we endure hardship and pain, we put it in that first box of just pain that deserves empathy. And this is terrible and woe is me and sometimes life is hard. That we miss the larger box of the rest of our pain that is imbued with purpose and allowed by God because he loves us too much not fashion us. Into the people that he created us to be. And so I very simply. Want to invite you this morning. As you go through grief and stress. And suffering and trials. To regard those things. As something that quite possibly. God has allowed in your life because he loves you too much to not fashion you into the person he's created you to be. And the final encouragement with that in mind, and is it possible that God's allowed pain in my life because it's going to bring about a greater good? The final encouragement I have for you is this, Hebrews 12, 12. I told you we were coming back to it. You probably forgot, but I didn't. Verse 12, therefore strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees, which allows me to put on the screen. My favorite thing I've ever put on the screen at grace, suck it up, buttercup deal with it. It might be good. Strengthen your feeble arms and your weak knees. Bear up under it. God might have a purpose for this. And it's quite possible that you can get decades down the road and be very grateful for the pain that you're complaining about right now. So let's think about suffering that way too. It's not all terrible and purposeless and awful. Some of it God means for us. And I believe it's possible that the pain you're enduring right now will be something that you see with gratitude and retrospect. So suck it up. Let's pray. Father, thank you for this morning. Thank you for the times in our life that are hard, that we don't understand. Thank you for the way that you fashion us, for the fact that you love us too much to abscond on your duty as a father and leave us to our own devices. Thank you for your discipline. Father, I pray that for those of us who are hurting, for those of us who are going through a hard time, God, if that is a season that evokes and warrants your empathy and your weeping, would we rest in that? But Father, if it's possible that it's a season that's simply you loving us by allowing us discomfort now for a greater glory and good later, God, I pray that we would invite that and allow that and appreciate that. Father, I lift up grace to you. Lift up these people in our church. I'm so grateful for it. I'm so grateful for them. I'm so grateful for you. Let us have a good time celebrating with our families today and tomorrow. In Jesus' name, amen.

Well, good morning. It's good to see everybody. Thanks for being here. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors of grace. Somebody over there is stinky because this side is full. You guys, I don't know what you're avoiding over here, but this is ridiculous. It's good to see you. Thanks for coming in May in the rain. I keep expecting for us to get over. There's always a bump in attendance in the spring, January, February, March. And that usually lasts until Easter. And then you guys go to the beach like for the whole until August. I don't see you again. So I keep expecting that every week and you keep showing up. So I'm just I'm going to threaten you with this. You keep showing up. We're going to two services in the fall. OK, you just have to deal with it. I also just want to praise God sincerely for this. Gibby, our worship pastor, Aaron Gibson, Gibby. We have too many Aarons around here, so I have to give them all nicknames, except for Aaron Buchanan. He's just Aaron, which makes sense. If you know him, that fits. Gibby's sick as a dog this morning. Like legit could barely talk to me when he got in this morning. He was late. He was later than he normally is because he's sick. So he can sneeze in the lobby now. But you wouldn't believe how often we look at each other on a Sunday morning and go, I feel terrible. I don't know if I can preach. I don't know if I can sing. And we just pray for God to give us 30 good minutes. And He always does. He always does. That was fantastic. I was moved to tears. It's so fun and good to be a singing church, especially since I inherited a bunch of frozen Presbyterians eight years ago. We've had to work on that a little bit. If you know, you know. This morning we continue in our series that Haley mentioned called FAQs, where we sourced some questions out to the small groups, solicited some responses, and just said, hey, what is it that you're curious about? What do you want to know? What questions do you have? And so we took kind of the most common ones and we said, let's talk about these on a Sunday. And I'm particularly excited to talk about this topic this morning because I feel it's so important. And it came up a lot in a bunch of different ways. But it's basically questions about understanding the doctrine of salvation. What does it mean to be saved? How do I know I'm going to heaven? Am I going to be saved forever? Can I lose it? Why does the question we're going to focus on at the beginning of our time this morning is why does God accept deathbed confessions, which is an interesting question, but there was a lot of questions around this doctrine of salvation and seeking to understand what it does mean to be saved and having a better understanding around that. And I think it's such an important question because once we get into church world, we kind of stop asking about salvation because I think we feel like we're supposed to know. And so we're embarrassed to ask. But here's what I know is that my understanding of salvation has worked progressively through my life that with each year or decade that passes, I come to understand salvation and what it is a little bit better. And I think that your understanding of salvation should progress as well. Even if you're here this morning and you're not a believer, there's a reason you're in church on a random May in the rain. And it has to be because you're at least curious. You're at least thoughtful about it. And so I would love to have the opportunity to tell you more about what it means to be a Christian. And I want the Christians in the room to understand their salvation more deeply. Because it's my suspicion that everybody here who is a Christian has at some point in their life, and many of you, and I have to, I hope that you'll trust me this morning that I'm not trying to be hard on anybody. I'm not trying to make you feel small for the way that you think. I'm not trying to make you feel uneducated or dumb. I just think this is a necessary phase of our understanding of our salvation that every Christian goes through. And I also know from experience that many Christians spend their entire life kind of misunderstanding the doctrine of salvation and being overly reductive about the incredible miracle that it is and what it actually means. And so this morning, what I'm hoping to do is to give us all a more rich understanding of our salvation. So either we're kind of locked into how we initially understand it, and this will kind of open up our minds and help us understand it better, God and more grateful to him for the miraculous event and process of our salvation. So that's where we're going this morning. That's what I want to do. To get there, I want to start with this question that came up in our emails, which is why does God accept a deathbed confession? This is an interesting question because it belies the motives behind it. And the motives behind that question generate a lot of the other questions that we have around salvation. This question comes most of the time from a sense of jealousy or resentment or entitlement or frustration. This question is most likely, and if you're the one that asked this, please hear me. It makes sense to ask it. I understand why you would. Every Christian has asked it. It's asked so often that Jesus talks about it in the Bible, and we're about to go to exactly where Jesus answers this question. But I want us to understand why we're asking it first. Let's just put it out there and be honest about it, because all of us do it. And again, I don't want anyone to feel bad for asking this question. I just want to understand why it comes up. The main motive in my estimation behind this question, why would God accept a deathbed confession, is essentially this, if we're going to use real language. I've been saved for decades. And I've been denying myself and keeping it between the ditches and trying to follow God's rules for years. And I've lived without the freedom of a pagan. And I'm going to use the word pagan this morning because a pagan is someone who doesn't believe in God. I'm not trying to be dismissive of those people, of non-believers. It's just pagans easier to say than non-believer? So we as Christians, and we know this, especially those of us that were Christians in high school and college, we are jealous of the freedom of the pagan, right? We're jealous of what they get to do and what we can't do. We've spent our life trying to follow the rules, trying to do the right things, trying to live the right way. And now here's this person who spent their life as a free pagan doing whatever they wanted to do, following any rules that they felt like they needed to follow, never committed to God, no fidelity, didn't put in the work that I did. And now at the very end, they're just going to slip in the door and we're going to the same heaven. That's not fair. I know it's hard to hear that out loud, but I can see about half of you grinning at me right now. You'll all have these smirks on your face like, yeah, that's pretty true. You got me. We've all thought that, and it's okay to think that. It makes sense why we would. It makes sense that we would think that. But here's Jesus' answer to that question. Why does he accept deathbed confessions? This is actually a parable. In the Gospel of Matthew, you can turn to chapter 20 if you want to. I'm going to read you verses 13 through 16, but first I need to tell you what's going on. Somebody comes up to Jesus and they ask this question. And so Jesus tells this story. He says there's an owner of a vineyard and he goes out one day where he can get some day laborers. And I've told you before, Israel was a poor country. They were impoverished. And so there was hubs where you would go and you could get men to come and put in a day's labor at whatever business you owned. And this was their livelihood. This was all that. They just hope they got picked that day. That was their livelihood. And so there's these people and the owner goes and he says, hey, I need y'all to come work for me in my vineyard. I'm going to pay you one denarius. I don't know how much that is. I could have done the research on what it was, but that feels like a waste of time. Google it if you care. I'm going to give you one denarius. And they're like, okay, great deal. So they go with him, they get in the Ford Ranger and they go to the vineyard and they start to work, right? And I don't know why Ford Ranger is funny, but it is. And they start to work and they're working all day. About the middle of the day, some other workers come by the field and they go, hey, we're looking for work. Can we help you today? And the owner says, yeah, sure. Come on. You can work for me. And so they start working by the middle of the day. And then about the last hour of the day, some other workers show up and they go, hey, we're looking for work. Can we work for you? The owner says, that's great. Yeah, come on. And they're working for him. So then when the work's done, the owner lines them up and begins to pay them. And he starts with the first group of workers that he hired that morning. Here's your one denarius for your day's labor. Thank you very much. And then he goes to the group that he hired in the middle. And he says, here's your one denarius. Thank you very much. And then he goes to the group that he hired with just an hour to go. And he said, here's your one denarius. Thank you very much. And the guys that have been working all day are ticked. Like, that's not fair. I worked eight hours for my denarius. That dude worked two hours, worked one hour. He had missed the smoke breaks and the lunch break and everything and just came in during the last hour. That's not fair. And the owner responds to them like this in verse 13. But he answered one of them, I am not being unfair to unfair to you friend didn't you agree to work for a denarius take your pay and go I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money or are you envious because I am generous so So the last will be first. And the first will be last. I love that response. They go, hey, that's not fair. We've been working for eight hours. They've been working for one hour. And you're giving us the same pay. And he goes, what do you care? That's basically the answer. It's my money. Do you care what I do with my own possession? Do you care what I do with my own resources? What right is it of yours to tell me what I should do? I chose to be generous to him. Are you envious of my generosity? You agreed to a denarius. I gave you a denarius. They agreed to this. I gave them this. It's my resources to do with what I want. And so to our question of why does God accept a deathbed confession where the implication is, hey, I've been laboring in the vineyard all day, my whole life. I've been working at this for decades. I put in a full eight hours. And I get my salvation. I get my eternity in heaven. I get my utopia. But they just slid in at the last minute. They don't deserve what I deserve. Maybe we can believe in purgatory so they have to suffer a little bit before they get the glory that I get. This is the jealousy that we express. And in that is implied exactly what the workers were frustrated about. Hey, that's not fair. I've put in my time and my effort. I've done my work. And the pay shouldn't be the same. And here's what this does. When we ask that question and we think that way. And here's what I wanted to talk about. When we think like that, we make salvation something that we think of in terms of being in or out. And very often, there's a lot of questions that Christians ask about salvation, and the motivation behind that question is, am I in or am I out? Did I say the prayer the right way? Am I in or am I out? Am I in heaven or am I burning in hell forever? That's what we're asking. How much sinning can I do and still be saved? Can I lose my salvation or does God hold on to me and I can't lose my salvation? That's an in or out question. How do I, if I feel like I lost my salvation, can I get it back? If someone wanders away, were they ever truly saved? All these questions that we ask about salvation are indicative of this thought process of in or out. And that's how we think about our salvation. And this is the place where many of us get stuck for our whole lives. But what I want us to see is that in or out salvation is a small salvation. Thinking of it that way reduces it to something that it should have never been. And if you're there, if you think about it this way, if you've thought about it that way, I don't want you to feel bad because that in or out mentality was probably handed to you by a well-meaning teacher in your church who also adopted that, who never got a more expansive view of salvation. I got saved when I was four. I was four and a half years old. We went to a special service on Sunday night, and the teacher taught us about the doctrine of hell. And I don't know if Aaron Winston's in here, but if I find out that we're teaching our four-year-olds about hell and scaring them into salvation, that's not going to be okay. They taught us about hell. They told us what it was. And they said, do you want to go there? No. No way. That sounds terrible. What's in heaven? Well, you sing a lot. I mean, that's better than hell. Okay. What do I have to do to go to heaven? Well, you have to believe in Jesus. Deal. What do I do to believe in Jesus? Will you repeat this prayer after me? Okay. You say the words and I'll do them too. And I was saved into an in or out understanding of salvation. What four-year-old isn't going to take out a fire insurance policy by threat of hell. Of course I got saved. God in his goodness has progressed my understanding of what salvation is over the decades. But many of us get saved into this kind of faith where for us it's a matter of are we in or are we out? And when we think of it that way, we become the jealous workers in the vineyard that get upset that we've been, and some of you will understand this reference, we've been the good brother in Luke 15, the one that stayed home and worked. And then the prodigal son comes home and God lets him into heaven and throws a party for him too. And we're like, what in the world? I've been doing my part the whole time. Because for us, salvation is, am I in? Am I going to heaven? Or am I not? And many of us get saved. And with this reductive view of what salvation is, we spend the rest of our lives just trying to stay in and trying to understand what's going to keep us there. But I think that there is a much bigger, better view of salvation. And I think it's presented to us in plain language in the greatest chapter in the Bible, Romans chapter 8. I'm going to read to you what Paul writes about what salvation is. But before I do, I want you to understand where we're picking this up. The first eight chapters of Romans, the first seven chapters of Romans, are a lengthy explanation of the doctrine of salvation. It's a lengthy explanation of the doctrine of salvation. Now, also, I want to pause here before I read. I forgot to say this, and I want to make sure that we're clear on this. When I talk about salvation, when I say saved or not, I want to just pause and be very clear that we understand what this means together, okay? The way that we explain salvation at grace, and when I say we, I mean me, because I'm the one that does it. The way that we explain salvation at grace is to say, to be saved, to be a Christian means that we believe Jesus is who he says he is. He says he's the son of God who's come to take away the sins of the world. We believe that. We believe that it means that Jesus did what he said he did. He lived a perfect life. He died a perfect death and he resurrected and rescued us from death and sin and shame. And it means that we believe that he's going to do what he says he's going to do, which in Revelation 19 is to come crashing through the clouds to reclaim us and his creation and restore it back to himself and its original glory. To be a Christian is to believe that Jesus is who he says he is, did what he said he did, and he's going to do what he says he's going to do. And that to become a Christian, all we need to engage in is the fundamental repentance of Christianity, which Peter describes to us in Acts. He's preaching a sermon. Jesus has been crucified. They're hanging out in the upper room for 40 days trying to figure out what to do. The Holy Spirit descends on them. Peter goes out to the crowd and he preaches. And the sermon is, hey, that guy that you killed was the Messiah and he came to save you. And the crowd believes him. And they say, what do we do? We messed up. And Peter says, repent and be baptized. Repent of what? I believe it's the fundamental repentance of salvation, which is to repent of who you thought Jesus was before you came to agree with him about who he says he is. So to be saved, we repent of who we thought Jesus was before we moved into this moment and this process of salvation. And we accept who he says he is from his word. That's what being a Christian is. Now, Romans is the most detailed theological lesson we get in the Bible. And the first seven chapters are written to help us understand what salvation is and what God did in it and what his responsibility is, what our responsibility is. Then in Romans 8, he culminates that seven chapter argument with what I think is the greatest chapter of the Bible and the culmination of the glory of salvation. And he proclaims to us what salvation is. So I want you to hear how Paul talks about it in Romans chapter 8 and see if this can't begin to expand our view of salvation. I've got my old Bible out. This is the ESV. I was reading this passage this morning in the NIV as I was going through the sermon. Sorry, sorry, DeVos. I know I bought you a Bible and now I'm ruining it. And I just didn't, I don't like the way the NIV reads. This is way better. So if you'll indulge me, I'm going to read you from the ESV. This is the soaring doctrine of salvation that Paul gives us. Verse 19. And I'm going to read all the way down through verse 30, so buckle up. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons in God. The creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it. In hopes that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning who have the firstfruits of the Spirit grown inwardly as we wait eagerly for the adoption of sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope for who hopes for what he sees, but if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know what to pray for as we ought. But the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Okay, lock in. You may have faded away, and you're not paying attention to the words anymore, but these three verses are super important. And we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And this is the important part. And those whom he predestined, he also called. And those whom he called, he also justified. And those whom he justified, he also glorified. This is Paul's soaring description of what it means to be saved and what salvation is seeking to do and what God is seeking to work in that salvation. So the first thing that we see is in the very first verse where Paul says, I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. What Paul is saying here is, whatever we had to suffer to be Christians, whatever we had to suffer to be in and to build God's kingdom, whatever that work was for the day in the vineyard, and we've put in our time, whatever suffering we've endured for the sake of the kingdom and for the sake of God is not worth comparing to the glory that will be revealed to us. In other words, there is no possible way you will spend any time at all being saved, being a Christian, being a child of God, and come to regret it. It is impossible that you would be a Christian your whole life and serve God your whole life and get to heaven and be jealous of the people who partied in college. That will not happen. As a matter of fact, what I want us to see, and Paul's talking to a persecuted church, to people who actually suffer. Very few of us, if any, have suffered for our faith. The bar to entry in the American evangelical church is so low that it costs us nothing to come. We have not suffered. Furthermore, the Bible makes it very clear that life with God is the best life possible. Scripture is replete of verses and passages that remind us that being a Christian is the best life possible. And I can go through the Rolodex, John 10.10, that I talk about all the time. The thief comes to steal and to kill and to destroy. But Jesus says, I have come that you might have life and have it to the full, have the most rich, full life possible. We're told in Psalms that at God's right hand are pleasures forevermore, that in his presence, there is a fullness of joy. We're told again in Psalms that one day in his courts is better than thousands elsewhere. We're told that we serve a God in Ephesians that is able to do immeasurably more than we can ask or imagine. We're told in John that from his fullness, we receive grace upon grace. We're told these things over and over again in scripture, that life with God is the best life possible. It's the fullest life possible. And so the reality is that if you're a Christian who's been saved your whole life and someone slips in at the last minute and they get to go to heaven too, you shouldn't feel jealousy. You should feel empathy because you just got to live your whole life with God and they missed out on all that joy. It is to our advantage to be picked up early and work in the vineyard all day. It's the life that we should desire and what we want. We should not feel jealousy to the deathbed conversion. We should feel empathy because they had to go through their whole life without God. And that's what salvation is. It's not in or out. It's with or without. You understand? It's not am I in, am I in, am I going or am I not? It's do I, am I living life with God? Am I abiding in him or am I not? And when someone is not saved, when someone doesn't know the Lord, the great tragedy is that they go through their life without experiencing the joy of the Lord and the joy of heaven. Without experiencing that relationship with him and the richness and fullness of life. We should not be jealous of that. We should be empathetic and continue to invite them in because through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of God. We needn't be jealous of the people who don't put in the work that we do. Because there is joy in that work. So right off the bat, Paul's not talking about in or out. Paul says with or without. And that there is no suffering that will not make it worth the glory that is to be revealed to us. Then, in the rest of this passage, we see this. And this is an important phrase. I want us to rest on it for a little bit. Salvation is a process of restoration and renewal. Salvation is a process of restoration and renewal. This is why this is important. Those words, process is important, restoration, renewal is important, and I want to show you why. But first, we're going to go to that word process. Because I think that many of us think about salvation as this moment in time. I wasn't saved. I prayed the prayer, said the confession, did whatever moment you look to where your belief changed. I wasn't saved. Then I prayed the prayer. I am saved. Done. And that's not true. Salvation is a process. And we know that salvation is a process because of what Paul writes in verse 30 that I said was really important. And those whom he predestined, he also called. And those whom he called, he also justified. And those whom he justified, he also glorified. That's a process. So let's walk through it so we understand it. Those whom he predestined, he also called. Those whom God knew before time were going to accept his invitation to salvation, he also called them to himself. With the urging of the Holy Spirit, he called you to himself. It wasn't your work that found God. It was God calling you to himself through his love and through his kindness and through his goodness. Now, I know that some of you in the room are Calvinist and you care deeply about these words. I am not and I don't. So I'm not going to last a long time there. OK, but those whom he predestined, he also called those whom he called. He also justified that justification is what many of us think of as the moment of our salvation. That's when you were set righteous. You were clothed in the righteousness of Christ. You were set right in the court of God. You were justified before him. You are no longer guilty. You were absolved from your sin because Jesus died, lived a perfect life and died a perfect death. You are now justified before God. And the good news is that in the culmination of this chapter, there's this incredibly powerful verse of the assurance of salvation where Paul writes, So once you are justified, Paul says, I am convinced that nothing can unjustify you. Nothing can unsave you. But the process doesn't stop there. Those whom he predestined, he also called. Those whom he called, he also justified. Those whom he justified, he also glorified. Now Paul speaks as if it's already been done because the work has been done. But we are not yet glorified. We are glorified when we occupy our bodies in heaven. We are glorified when we sit in the presence of God. I love that verse that he sneaks in there in the middle. We do not hope for what we see. We hope for what we do not see. So we wait for it with patience. Meaning, when we get to heaven, we don't need faith and hope anymore because we have God there. So he says that glorification is coming later. So what I want you to understand about your salvation is that it is in process. It's not done. When you are justified, you're secure. You will not be unjustified. But there is another step. And that doesn't happen until eternity. And that's what's in this text. So it's a process, I said, and that's the process. It starts at predestination, at call, at justification, and it's finished at glorification when we're in eternity with God forever. But it's also a process of renewal and restoration. We think about salvation as just our issue. It's just me and God. It's just for me. Jesus died for me, but that's not what we see in the text. In the text, we see that we groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons and the redemption of our bodies, the completion of the salvation process. But so does the world groans in the pains of childbirth waiting for its redemption and restoration as well. So what I want us to understand about salvation is it's bigger than you. It's about restoring all of creation. When God made heaven and earth in Genesis, he made it perfect. He was pleased with it. And I am convinced that it looks completely different than our earth now. And we have mucked up this earth with sin and brokenness. And that one day he will restore all things. He will return and he will make the wrong things right and the sad things untrue. And he will be with us and we will be with our God and the former things will have passed away. And he'll create a new heaven and a new earth. And he will have restored creation back to himself and its original purpose. So when Jesus dies on the cross, he's not just dying for souls. He's dying for everything that he created to restore it back to himself. Because we're told in Romans that all of creation groans for the return of the king. The earth groans for God. And when we think about salvation as being in or being out, we miss virtually everything that's said in Romans 8. We make it so overly reductive as if to think that what we're teaching the kids over there is the greatest understanding that we ever need of this incredible doctrine. And we miss out on what it truly means to be saved. Here's the last thing that I want us to understand about salvation. Being saved allows us to experience glimpses of heaven here and now. If being in heaven is being with God and not being in heaven is being without God, then as people, we are literally experiencing either hell on earth or heaven on earth. Sometimes we get glimpses of what it is when we're in God's presence, at moments with our children, a hike, a sunset, a hug, singing. When we raise our voices, every time we sing and you guys sing loud and Aaron backs off and it's just us, every time that happens, I have to stop singing because I start crying. Because that's what heaven will be like. We will sing together. And so in being believers, we get these glimpses of heaven and what it will be like. And we usher God into our life and and we invite him in, and we allow him in. This is, again, why we should not be envious of the person who gets saved on their deathbed and got, oh, you got this whole life of freedom. No, we're actually taught in Romans that we are slaves to sin. We're slaves to this bondage of corruption, but that by being saved, we are finally free from sin. We live with more freedom than anyone. We should have more joy than anyone. I said this on Easter. Easter is the most joyful day and we are the most joyful people because of the hope that we have in Christ. So I want you to see this morning. I don't know if you can tell I'm fired up about it because I really want you to understand what it means to be saved it's not it's it's too small to understand it as am I going to heaven or am I not am I in or am I out with all gentleness that's a childlike understanding of our faith. And as we grow, and as we move towards glorification through our sanctification, we should allow God to deepen our understanding of what it means to be his child. And we should understand that he's going to restore all of creation to himself, not just us. And we should understand that every day we get to live as Christians is a day that we spend in the presence of God. And at his right hand, there are pleasures forevermore. In his presence, there is fullness of joy. We should be happy and proud and grateful if we're already laboring in the vineyard because of our understanding of what salvation is and how much God loves us through it. So let's progress in that and develop a far more deep, rich, helpful, gratitude-inducing understanding of what it means to be saved. Let's pray. Father, thank you for saving us. Thank you for sending your son. Thank you for sharing him with us. Thank you for watching him suffer for us. Thank you for the promise that you will renew and restore us. Thank you for the promise that you will renew and restore creation. Thank you for who you are. God, if there's anybody here who doesn't know you, I pray that your Holy Spirit would beckon them even now to desire to be with you and begin to experience glimpses of eternity here in this life. For those of us who are saved, God, thank you. Thank you for calling us to work early. Thank you for letting us labor in your vineyard. Thank you for the joy that it brings in what it is. God, we pray all these things in the name of your son, Jesus. Amen.

Well, good morning. My name is Nate. I get to be one of the pastors here. Gibby, I got to hand it to you. It takes a real man to bracket himself with people with better voices than him week after week. I thought Holly and Dave sounded great this morning. Fun fact about David, I'm pretty sure that this is true. If it's not, Katie, please don't publicly correct me. But I'm pretty sure that they met at a bar or a restaurant where David was singing karaoke to Backstreet Boys. And she said, I need to know about that guy. That's true, right? I can't believe that's true. I love that story so much. And I just think that every time he's up here singing, you should know that that voice got him a family. OK, That's pretty great. That's pretty great. This morning, we are starting a new series called Frequently Asked Questions. We thought it would be good and hopefully helpful to take some time here following Easter as we kind of finish up spring, move into the summer to answer questions that Christians often ask, but sometimes are too afraid to ask them like in a small group setting or ask somebody that they know because sometimes there's things that we feel like we should know and we don't and we don't want to admit that we don't. So we just kind of go along with it and pretend like we know things when we really don't know things. And so part of what we want to do is stop and answer those questions so you don't have to ask them out loud. We want you to keep your dignity, and we're just going to help you along the best we can. To get these questions, we did poll our small groups and ask our small groups to respond and give us your questions back. I think we had about 33% participation on that. So the ones who helped, thank you. The ones who didn't, thanks for nothing. I hope you hate this series because you could have fixed it. So then we got all the responses back and we kind of grouped them together, the staff and I did, and put them up on the whiteboard and we saw, okay, where are the redundancies? What are we seeing a lot of interest in? And we tried to talk about the things that came up the most. Now, I will tell you up front, we're not touching on any hard topics. Some of you guys snuck some questions in there about revelation or culture or whatever, like, hey, let's see if Nate will do this one. No, I will not do that one. But if those questions are so burning to you that you really do want to know, I would love to get coffee or lunch with you or let you come to my office and let's chat about it. So if you have a question that is serious to you and you really do want to discuss it, I would love to discuss it. I love discussing things way more than I love actually working. So if you want to take up some time in the afternoon and I call that work and I get to talk, this is fantastic. Okay, so if there's something you want to talk about, I want to talk about it with you if it doesn't get addressed in this series. And what I'll probably do is put out the schedule for the sermons so you guys will know what we're discussing and when we're discussing it. And then you'll know if there's something that we're not going to discuss that you would like to. This morning's question is kind of an amalgamation of a bunch of different questions that all mean, how can I discern God's will for my life? It's questions like, how do I know when I'm hearing the voice of God versus when I'm just dealing with my own thoughts? How can I know God's will and move in the direction that he's encouraging me to move in with confidence, knowing that it's something that he wants me to do? Essentially, how can I discern God's will for my life? How can I be sure that I'm hearing his voice? This question is a question that comes up a lot. Almost every time I do a sermon or I mention being kingdom builders, we need to build God's kingdom. And that's my goal for everybody who calls grace home is that God would slowly but surely mold you into someone who is passionate about building God's kingdom, who understands that that's why you were placed on this earth to build his kingdom, not your own. But I always get, okay, I want to build God's kingdom. How do I do that? What do I do? And the question that they're asking is, how can I get God's discernment on his will for my life? It's this question. So I think that this question, how can I be sure that I know God's will? How can I hear God's voice? I think it kind of comes up really in two big ways in our life. The first time it comes up is when we first become a Christian or we first begin to take our faith seriously. Because when I say that, what I mean is a lot of us were saved, became a Christian as children, but we didn't really click into that Christianity until adulthood or until high school or until college. And so there's some point in our life at which we began to take our faith seriously or we drifted away from a devout faith and now we're clicking back in. We never lost our faith. We just didn't prioritize it the same way. And now we're clicking back in and it occurs to us, man, God has a will and a plan for my life and I need to know what that is. So how do I hear from God? How do I learn from him? How can I walk with confidence in his direction and in obedience? And so one way that we begin to ask this question of how can I hear God's voice is when we first kind of come online as a Christian and start to realize that God does have a direction and a will for us, and we need to tap into that. So how do we hear it? The other time in life that this question becomes really important is when we are faced with a very difficult decision. Or maybe we even find ourselves languishing in a period of indecision in our life, where we just don't know what to do. Do I take the job or do I stay where I'm at? And what I would say there just real quickly is if that job is going to take you away from grace, God does not want you to take that job. As your pastor, I'm just telling you that. I want to be direct. Do I take the job or do I not? Do I fix this relationship or do I not? Do I have that conversation with someone or do I avoid it? Do I interject myself in this situation or do I stay out? How do I move forward with my child is making this decision. I don't want them to make that decision, but they're a grown up or they're close to it. And I don't know how to be their parent right now, what do I do? And so in a room this size with this many people, I'm certain that there are some of you who may or may not be languishing, but you're certainly existing in a season of indecision. Or you may be facing a big decision, and you're just not sure how to discern God's will for that decision. You're not sure how to hear his voice. And hopefully all of us are in places where we do try to listen to God. We do try to discern his will for the big decisions and the small decisions in our life. So the way I thought about this sermon is if you and I were to down for lunch, and you were to give me one of those two scenarios. I'm newer to the faith. I hear people talking about praying and hearing from God. I don't really know how that works. How do I hear from God? That's one question. Or we sit down for lunch, and you go, I'm facing this decision. I don't know what to do. How can I discern God's will for my life? Okay, that's another question. But I would answer both those questions in the same way. And so this morning is really just practical advice. This is a highly practical sermon. And I hope and pray that it's helpful for you if you're in either of those seasons. And if you're not, I hope it's a good reminder and some things that you'll grab onto that I can give you to think about as you face decisions in the future. So if you were to ask me, hey, how do I know God's will for my life? How can I hear his voice in either this situation or in general? I would say, well, I think it's progressive. I think we have to learn. I think there's a system. And I think the Bible teaches us. The Bible gives us enough information, but I don't have to guess at how we hear from God. The Bible shows us how we hear from God. So the first thing I would say is the very first thing to do when you're facing a decision or when you want to start listening to the voice of God, I think one of the very first things we do is know that we hear from the spiritually mature. We hear God's word and God's voice and God's will from the spiritually mature people that we have in our life. I'll show you where we see this. 2 Kings chapter 4. I'm going to be looking at verses 2 through 4. So this woman, this woman comes up to Elisha. Elisha, and you can just leave that up there, Andrea. I'll get to it in just a second. I false started you on that. I'm sorry. Elisha is one of the great prophets in the Old Testament. Elijah and Elisha are some of the great prophets in the Old Testament. They're underrated and underappreciated because they don't have a book named after them, but they're probably the two greatest prophets that we have. They're incredible and their lives are amazing. And we see their stories in 1 and 2 Kings. Elisha is going about his day and a woman, a widow, comes up to him and she says, my husband has died. I have no money. My creditors are after me. I'm afraid I'm going to be homeless and destitute. What should I do? What can I do? And this is how Elisha responds beginning in verse 2. She's afraid she's going to have to give her boys over as Testament. This widow comes to Elisha and she says, I'm poor, my husband's dead, I'm destitute, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to give my sons over to slavery to pay my debts off. I don't know what to do. And Elisha says, okay, I want you to get, what do you have? Do you have a jar of oil? Great. Go around to your neighbors, ask if you can have access to their recycling bins and get all the milk, get all the gallon jugs you could find. This is essentially what's happening. Get all the jars that you can find from your neighbors, bring them to your house, go into a room by yourself, shut the door behind you and begin to pour the oil from your jar into these other jars. And so she does, as she's told, it probably doesn't make any sense to her. She probably thinks this sounds crazy, but she does it. And it's one of the great miracles of the old Testament that no matter how much she poured, there was still oil in her jar. And all the jars were filled. And then she says, I've done it. I filled all the jars I could find. He says, okay, go and sell that oil and take a chunk of it and pay off your debts. And there should be enough remaining for you to live well for a while until you can figure something else out. And so she was taken care of, but she was taken care of by going to a spiritually mature person and saying, what should I do? And then having the courage to do what she was told. And what you're going to see is that this question isn't as much about how do I know God's will for my life? This sermon and this question is really about, do you have the courage to walk in obedience when it's clear? Because a lot of times it is clear to us what we need to do. We just keep praying, hoping for a different answer because we don't want to do the thing. She did the thing. It was crazy, but she did it. And so similarly in our lives, if we want to hear from God, if we want to know what to do in a difficult decision, we should go to the spiritually mature people in our life. I have a friend named Tyler. And Tyler is, he's the most trusted recommender I have in my life. I will do, and he does research about everything. Two or three years ago, we moved into our new house. I was in an airport, and I had been doing research on security systems. Jen said she wanted an alarm on the house, so I was trying to figure out the best way to do this and how to get this accomplished. Apparently, this is not much of a security system for us, so we need a little bit extra. And I'm in an airport. I can't remember which airport I'm in, and I'm not sure what to do, and I think, I know, I'll call Tyler. I'm certain that Tyler has done research on this. So I called him, and 45 minutes later, we are still talking about security systems from all the research that he's done. He was delighted to have the conversation. I kept saying, dude, I'm so sorry I'm taking up your time on this. I know this is silly. He's like, no, no, no, I love this. Anyways, so the ring system, and he's getting back into it. Tyler, if he tells me, hey, dude, you need to read this book. Hey, man, you need to listen to this podcast. Hey, I watched this show, and it was great. I always say, don't say another word. I don't want to know what it's about. I don't need to know what it's about. I will consume it tomorrow. He is the number one recommender in my life. If Tyler says it about silly, frivolous stuff, there's no one that knows more about less important things than Tyler. So I just go with whatever he says. We need spiritual Tylers in our lives. When we face indecision, we go to them. They've done the work. They've done the research. They're in the word. They're a man or a woman of prayer. They know how to hear from God. They've matured past us. We go trust their voice when we can't trust our own. We go to spiritually mature people and we ask them what they think, trusting their ability to hear from God. If you feel like I have no idea how to hear from God, the first thing you do, go talk to spiritually mature people who know God's word and who are prayed up. Before I took this job, when it was offered to me, before I agreed to come, I went to six different senior pastors who are far more experienced than me. And I put everything in front of them. And I said, does this seem wise? Do you think this is a good idea? I went to spiritually mature people who know better than me. As a spiritually mature Christian trying to discern God's word, I went to people who had already moved beyond me and asked them what they thought. And I sought their counsel. Proverbs has a lot to say about seeking wise counsel. So if we want to hear from God, we go to wise people. The other place we go, and the only reason I didn't put this one first is because sometimes you don't know where to go in God's word. And so sometimes we need a spiritually mature person to direct us there. But the other place we go to hear from God is to know that we hear from God's word. What do we hear from God? We hear from his word. Look at Luke chapter five, verses four through six. Simon Peter had been out fishing all night and he comes back and Jesus sends him back to throw out the nets. In verse 4, when he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, put out into deep water and let down the nets for a catch. Simon answered, Master, we've worked hard all night and haven't caught anything, but because you say so, I will let down the nets. When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break. A lot of us know this story. A lot of us know this story. We've seen this before. But what I want you to see is Peter is responding to the very words of God, the words of the Savior. He gets done with the night of fishing and Jesus says, you didn't catch anything, go back out, cast in deep water. Which, by the way, deep water's further away, so it's no small thing that he's asking after a full night of fishing. And Peter says, we just did that, but since you told me to, I will. And he has the courage and the fidelity to obey. Which, again, is what this question is really about. Once you have discerned God's voice, do you have the courage to walk in accordance with it? They go out, they cast the nets, just like Jesus told them to, and they caught more than they could ever imagine catching before. The nets were breaking from pulling in the fish. And so the example here is when God speaks to us, we should listen. And we have the benefit of this whole Bible. And we believe about this Bible that it is inspired and it is authoritative and that these words are God's words. And so if we can find it in the Bible, God is speaking to us. And there are some things that we're trying to discern God's will on. And there are very clear passages on that thing. I've had people come to me before and say, should I forgive so-and-so? This happened in my past. I can't forgive them. Do you think God wants me to forgive them? Well, there's a passage for that. That's easy. You go to where Peter asked Jesus that very question, where Peter says, hey, if someone sins against me, I know I should forgive them. But if they do the same sin, how many more times should I forgive them for the same thing? And Peter says, should I do it up to seven times? Thinking this is a generous offer. And Jesus says, I tell you the truth, you should forgive them 70 times seven times. Which means as many times as they commit the offense, you should forgive them. So if you come to me and you go, is it the Lord's will for me to forgive this person? And a lot of times that question is not asked lightly. That question is not asked lightly. Sometimes it's stupid. Sometimes it's, you know, my boyfriend and my girlfriend broke up with me and I can't forgive them. Okay, we'll be a grownup. But other times it's really, really serious stuff. It's stuff from childhood. It's the worst kinds of betrayal and I can't find it in my heart to forgive. Do you think God wants me to forgive? Yeah, it's in the Bible. It's right there. Do you think God wants me to give, even if it's tight, even if finances are difficult? Does God want me to be a generous person and be a giver? Yeah, I think he does. If I have a lot, if I have an overabundance, and 10% is a serious chunk of money, does God still want me to give 10% even though I'm giving generously compared to all the people around me? Yeah, I think he does. I think that's the baseline in Scripture. I think that's pretty clear. So there's some things that we go back and forth about, what's God's will here, when really it's answered in Scripture. And sometimes a spiritually mature person can point us to the right passage. Sometimes we can point ourselves to the right passage. I'll tell you what's really great in this instance. This is my number one sermon prep tool. It's www.google.com. What does the Bible say about forgiveness? What does the Bible say about fathers and mothers? What does the Bible say about child rearing? Now, I know that that sounds ridiculous, and you have to kind of sort through some stuff sometimes to get something of worth, but very often you'll find that someone has made a list of all the verses that address that topic. And it allows you easily just to see, oh, this is what the Bible says about these things. And when we're trying to discern God's will for our life or what we should do in a certain situation, if we're lucky enough to find a passage that addresses it directly, we can be done wondering what God wants us to do. We just again again, have to have the courage to actually do it. Now, sometimes, sometimes we've grown in our maturity. We believe we've heard from God before. We've been obedient to scripture and we allow it to speak to us and into situations in our life, but we might be facing a decision that isn't specifically covered in the Bible. Do I take that job? Do I address that situation? Do I support them in this or not? Do I invest in my friend's company in this way? What non-profit should I serve in? I want to give, and I want to give generously, but there's so many options. What's the right one? How do I know God's will for that? So there's some questions that are not easily laid out in scripture. And for those, we need to learn to listen to God. And one thing we can do to learn to listen to God is sometimes you test God. Sometimes you test him to see. And this is a biblical thing, because that sounds a little out there, put God to the test, but there's a way in which you can do it, and it's appropriate. There's that famous story in Judges with Gideon. Gideon is a judge that God has raised up to overthrow the Midianite oppressors of his Hebrew people. And Gideon thinks that God wants him to go to battle. He's pretty sure that he's got his army assembled and God wants him to go to battle, but he just wants to be extra sure. So he says, okay, God, I think that this is what you want me to do, but just to be sure, I'm going to go to bed and I'm going to leave a fleece. I'm going to leave a fleece, a rug out in front of my tent. And if I wake up in the morning and that fleece is wet with dew and the ground around it is dry, I will take that as a signal from you that this is what I need to do. So he goes to sleep. He wakes up the next morning. Sure enough, fleece is wet. We know this. The ground is dry. And he says, okay, God, I'm going to go do the thing. That's not what he says because Gideon is like us. Gideon actually says this when he finds the fleece. Look at this verse in Judges 6, verse 39. Then Gideon said to God, I love this part, do not be angry with me. Please don't be mad. Just let me make just one more request. Allow me one more test with the fleece, but this time make the fleece dry and let the ground be covered with dew. So he's like, all right, that was a cool trick that you did with the fleece last night. But just to be sure, can you do the opposite? Can we flip it? Are you that fancy? So he goes to bed. He wakes up the next day. The ground around the fleece is soaked in dew. The fleece is dry. And Gideon knows what he needs to do. He assembles the men and he goes to war. And he goes to war knowing that he has the assurance of God to do this thing. And the wonderful part about putting God to the test is when you put him to the test for very difficult things, we don't have to lead people into war, most of us. But sometimes we have to move our families to different states. Sometimes we have to eat a big thing of humble pie. Sometimes we have to take a new job that we don't know about. Sometimes we have to step off the cliff hoping that God will catch us. And when those times come, it is so helpful to put God to the test and be able to go back to a clear signal that he gave us, yes, this is what I want you to do, move forward. There's been so many times in the life of grace and in my tenure as a senior pastor where I've had to put God to the test and say, if you want this to happen, you're going to be the one that has to do it because I don't see a way forward. And then he's made a path forward. Sometimes we can put God to the test like this. Now, I'm not recommending this, but this is a famous story in my family. And every time I hear this story, I think it's false. I think one of my great aunts or uncles made it up, okay? But my mom swears that it's true. And if you can't trust your mom, who can you trust? I have a great aunt. I forget her name. Maybe Sarah. And my whole family on my mom's side is from the South. My pop all grew up in South Georgia, literally on a dirt floor. My mom all grew up in Red Stick, Baton Rouge, and she's Cajun. So I've got a real good combination of low quality individuals in my ancestry. And my great aunt Sarah was a widow and lived alone. And her house was in disrepair. Her roof looked terrible and I believe was leaking in some places. And she was a woman of faith. She was a devout woman of faith and she went to church every Sunday. And the story goes that one day she got fed up with her roof leaking in the way that it looked. And she marched out in her front yard and she turned and faced her house and she said, Father, everybody around here knows that I'm your daughter. And if this is how you want to see them taking care of your daughter, then that's your business. But I should think that you would want better for me. And then she walks back in the house. Again, I wouldn't try it. Walks back in the house. That was her prayer. It was her test. The next day, no kidding around, she gets a knock at the door. Two dudes from a roofing company. We're new in town. We can see that you need a new roof. We'd love to replace it for free if you'll allow us to use you as a model home and put a sign in your yard. And she says, thank you, Father. Yeah, that'll be fine. She gets a new roof. God wanted her to have that roof, no doubt about it. Sometimes we put them to the test. Here's something that I do sometimes. Sometimes I'll be concerned for a person, or I'll have something that I think I want to say to somebody that's hard. Maybe I see a pattern, and I just want them to know that I see it it and I want them to know that I want to encourage them through it. Or maybe I can just see that they're having a hard time and I want to give them a space to talk about that hard time. But I'm not sure if I need to interject myself. I'm not sure if they want that. You know those prompts that you feel of, I think I should probably talk to that person. I think I need to call them. Or maybe you're in a social gathering and you see somebody and you're like, oh yeah, I wanted to talk to them about this, but I don't know if it's appropriate. I don't know if I should. The prayer that I'll pray when I feel those things is, Father, if you want me to talk to that person, will you make that possible? If I'm in a social gathering and there's somebody that I know I need to talk to, but I can't just walk up to a circle of people and start talking to them about that thing. I will pray, God, if you really do want me to say that to them, will you put me alone with them and give me a window to do that? And then I just know, and I'm sensitive to, if I'm just moving about whatever it might be, a grace's big night out, and this person ends up alone with me. Now, none of you are going to talk to me at Grace's Big Night Out. I'm not talking to him. He might have prayed about this. I'm not going over there. But if there's a door that God opens to that conversation and it becomes appropriate, I have to have the courage to walk through it. Or I'm going to lunch with somebody, and I know that there's something I want to say to them, but I'm not sure if I should, I'll pray, God, if I'm supposed to say what I think you want me to say, will you have them bring it up so that I can walk in confidence into that conversation, knowing that I'm doing the right thing? And see, for me, that's an exercise in discipline, Because I don't know how many of you are like me in that you're messed up and you love confrontation. I love it. I want to say the thing. Like, I don't want to be mean about it. I just want to put my face in the wood chipper and have the conversation. Let's just do it. It's best for everybody. I'm chomping at the bit to have those conversations. So what I'm asking for is like, God, you tell me when I'm let off the leash and I'll go. That's what I'm asking for. Others of you are just, you don't even need a leash. You don't need an electric fence. You're just going to stay in your yard. You're not going, you are so scared of those conversations. But let me tell you something. If God's placed something on your heart that he might want you to say to somebody, and then he opens the door for you to do that, have the courage and the obedience to step through it. Because I can tell you from experience, God uses those conversations. When you're having a holy conversation, a holy confrontation, a holy period of encouragement, it refreshes refreshes you and it refreshes them and it builds both of your faiths and It builds your ability to hear from God God I think you want me to say this then he opens the door then you walk through it and you say it and now that you that exists in your life as a marker of a time that you heard God's voice. And you're starting to learn it. And you're starting to walk in obedience. And he's able to use you as more of a tool as you walk through life. And it builds their faith. Because you can say to them, you know, I just have been thinking about you and praying about you. And this is on my heart and so I just feel like I want to say it. I've never said that and been met with apathy. No one's ever said that to me and I've gone, yeah, I didn't really need to hear that. I think you missed it on that one. It's always right. It's always good. So whether it's a conversation or a situation, it's okay to put God to the test and say, God, if this is truly what you want me to do, can you give me this kind of sign? Can you do this thing? Can you bring this person into my life? Will you have them, if you, I've even done it before too. I've said, God, if you want me to talk to that person about that thing, I'm going to need you to have them call me today. And then an hour later, my phone will ring and I'll see their name and my heart will sink because it's like, shoot, I have to do it. I thought that was, I thought I was going to sneak that one by him. So one thing we can do is we can put God to the test. And as we do that, eventually you learn to hear God on your own. So as we talk progressively about how can we hear from God, eventually we talk to spiritually mature people who know how to hear from God. Then we consult Scripture, God's Word. Then we start putting God to the test to learn when we are and when we are not hearing God's voice. And then eventually we learn to hear God on our own. John 14, 27 says this, or 10, 27, sorry, it's wrong in your notes. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. We are taught, Jesus says that his sheep know his voice, right? That when the sheep are out there, all the shepherds in the world can be yelling, but when our shepherd yells, we know and we look. I've always thought about this as God's dad whistle. Every dad worth his salt has a whistle. Charlie Healy, if you don't have one, you've got to develop one. I don't want to see you shaking your head. You go home and you work on it. Or you're underserving Henry. Every dad worth his salt has a whistle. You have to. You have to. We were on the subway in Washington, D.C. this week. And Jen and the kids were in a seat. And I was standing in the door because I had the stroller that I had to hold up. And I wanted Lily to see something. So I just gave her a little. And it cut through just that loud. but it cut through everything. She's reading a book. She looks up right at me. She knew it was me. And I was like, yes, I'm a good dad. That's all you need. You don't need to know. I didn't snap at her or be too hard on her at any point in the trip. You don't even need to know that. I'm a good dad because she responded to that whistle. I can remember being in a park when I was a kid at the ballpark or something like that running around and I would hear my dad's whistle and I knew, I knew, I know Rayvon has a whistle. I knew that I had about 10 seconds to get my butt to the car or it was going to get tore up. Like I knew that, right? Every dad worth his salt has a whistle. We hear it and we know. When we've been walking with God long enough, we know his voice. We don't have to put him to the test anymore. We just say, yes, Lord, okay, open the door and I will walk through it. Do you want me to take this job? Do you want me to do this thing? Do you want me to fix this relationship? When we've been walking with him long enough, we know his voice. It's just, I don't think it's describable. When people say, how do you know you hear from God? When you've put them to the test enough times and you've learned to recognize that impulse in your life and in your heart, you learn when it's the Holy Spirit and when it's not. But that's just a repetition thing. It's just a time thing. We've spoken to spiritually mature people. We've consulted his word. We've we've put him to the test and over time we learn to identify his voice finally as we progress through it you expect to hear from God now this one's wild to me I've never known anyone that was like this but it's in the Bible so it's's true. 2 Kings 4.27. I'm going to read it to you. This will seem unremarkable, but you'll see where I'm going. 2 Kings 4.27. So the widow is coming back. Her son has died. And when she reached the man of God at the mountain, she took hold of his feet. Gehazi came over to push her away, but the man of God said, leave her alone. She is in bitter distress, but the Lord has hidden it from me and has not told me why. So he's going through his day. The widow that he helped with the oil earlier in the chapter, her son dies, and she comes to Elisha in distress. And she grabs his feet, and Gehazi was his assistant, his right-hand man, and he goes to push her away. Like, that's not appropriate. Don't do that. And Elisha holds him off and says, don't do that. She's in bitter distress. And this is a phrase I will, it will never not impact me when I see it. And when I think about it, the Lord has hid it from me and I'm not sure why. Do you understand that Elisha walked so closely with the Lord and heard his voice so regularly that he went through his day and listening and expecting to hear things from God. He is surprised that God did not tell him about the death of this boy that he is close to and that he loves. He's surprised that God didn't. Can you imagine walking through your day and going, oh, so-and-so just got diagnosed with cancer, I'm going to call him. That just occurring to you because you can hear God's voice that clearly, but that's who Elisha was and that's who we should strive to be. I know that that feels like a very long way off for most, if not all of us, but I believe it's possible based on the example of Elisha to listen to God so intently and so regularly and to know his voice so well that he begins to tell us things that we're not even asking about. And the last thing I would say about hearing God's voice and how do we discern it is something that I say very regularly. God often speaks in stereo. God often speaks in stereo. If you're a new Christian, you want to know, or you're a newly engaged Christian, you want to know how to hear God's voice and discern his will. Know that he speaks in stereo. If you have multiple mature friends saying the same thing, that's stereo. If you have a friend saying something and you're reading scripture and you're not even seeking out an answer for this, but a verse jumps off the page in a new way that's in some way directly applies to your situation, we call that, my buddy Harris calls that a God wink. Just God winking at you going, yeah, I got you. I'm taking care of you. That's my voice. You can trust it. Or you're having a conversation and it comes up and this person says a thing and you're like, you didn't even know I was dealing with that, but that's exactly what I'm dealing with right now. This must be a God thing. Yeah, it must be. Or you come to church and I'm preaching about something and it happens to be exactly what you're dealing with that week, which happens all the time. People come up to me afterwards and go, you have no idea, but either my wife called you and told you to preach that to me, or the Holy Spirit is speaking to you because that's exactly what I needed. God often speaks in stereo. And if you find yourself in a season of indecision, if you find yourself not knowing what God's will is, but you've heard the same thing from multiple sources, it might not be that you don't know what to do. It might just be that you don't have the courage to do it yet. Because like I said, this sermon is not really about learning to discern the voice of God. It's about challenging ourselves to walk in confidence once we've heard it. These are the ways that we hear it. And if God is speaking to you in stereo, then you already know what you should be doing. So I'm going to pray for us. I'm going to pray for those of you who are in seasons of indecision that God will bring some clarity, that he will speak to you in stereo and multiple trusted sources. And I'm going to pray that for those of you who want to learn the voice of God will have opportunities even this week to begin to hear him and put him to the test and walk in faith. Let's pray. Father, thank you for this morning. Thank you for speaking to us. Thank you for being a God who hears, but also a God who speaks. God, give us ears to hear you. Give us hearts to obey you. Help us walk in confidence once we've heard from you. God, if there is someone here, as a matter of fact, I know there are people here who find themselves in these seasons of indecision. Would you give them clarity for those choices? Would you give them confidence to walk according to your will? And would you make your will abundantly clear to them? Father, for those of us who are learning to hear your voice, would you give us a chance even this week to hear it? Would you give us a chance to put you to the test so that we might walk in faith and so learn to hear your voice more and more? Would we be like your sheep who know your voice and respond to it? And one day, maybe, God, we can be like Elisha and even have the boldness to expect to hear from you. We pray these things in your son's name. Amen.